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Roman Numeral Analysis - Cadential I64 to V bracket?
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:46 am
by Alicia Morgan
Hi - I've been doing RNA harmonic analysis, and Finale Numerics gives me everything I've needed so far - everything except the bracket for connecting a cadential 64 to V. I've been making do with using a regular straight double-ended bracket and just putting a V below it but I really want to be able to put the correct bracket under it. I've tried using other RNA/fig bass fonts, but I can't find it in those fonts either. I tried creating one in Smart Shapes but it was a miserable failure.
Surely someone else uses those brackets, right?
Any ideas would be very much appreciated.
Looking for Cadential 64 Bracket.png
Thanks, Alicia
Re: Roman Numeral Analysis - Cadential I64 to V bracket?
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:20 am
by zuill
One of these was done combining 2 Smart Shapes. The other is a Shape Expression using the Multiline Tool.
Zuill
Re: Roman Numeral Analysis - Cadential I64 to V bracket?
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:35 am
by motet
If you don't mind the top of the V being closed, you can specify a character for the middle of a SmartShape, I used something from the Symbol font here. It has the advantage of staying in the middle no matter how wide you make the line. But Zuill's look better.
Re: Roman Numeral Analysis - Cadential I64 to V bracket?
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:40 am
by Alicia Morgan
Thanks for your quick reply! The Shape Designer in Expression Designer? I guess I'll have to get a whole lot better at using it - when I try it it looks like a 5-year-old with an Etch-a-Sketch. Which two Smart Shapes? Did you just make it on the fly or were you able to save it as a separate Smart Shape?
It just seems odd that of all the crazy alternative notation out there, that there isn't a standard bracket like that.
Thanks!
Re: Roman Numeral Analysis - Cadential I64 to V bracket?
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:47 am
by motet
In case Zuill doesn't return soon, ctrl-Click on the custom SmartShape icon (it looks line an asterisk in a hexagon). There's already a shape that's almost what you want. Change the V endpoint to point the other way (in typical Finale fashion what you want is the opposite of what's shown!). It will be saved in this particular file so you can use it again and again. There are ways to move it to another file, put it in a template, etc.
The other half of your bracket is already there (shown at the top here). You need to select these one at a time as the custom line.
Re: Roman Numeral Analysis - Cadential I64 to V bracket?
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:38 am
by Peter Thomsen
My shot at it.
Also, examine the attached Finale document.
Bracket.musx
Bracket.jpg
Re: Roman Numeral Analysis - Cadential I64 to V bracket?
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:07 pm
by zuill
Peter's sample works well. To put it into your document, copy the measure with the Smart Shape and paste it into a blank measure in your document. It will now be available in the Custom Line Tool list (at the bottom). Select that and then use it where needed.
Zuill
Re: Roman Numeral Analysis - Cadential I64 to V bracket?
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:00 pm
by Anders Hedelin
FWIW, I've used a combination of two analyses, RNA for the details, and functional analysis for a more general level. Like this:
RNA etc..PNG
I'm nor sure it's important how the bracket looks, but I think you have a couple good solutions on this thread already.
Re: Roman Numeral Analysis - Cadential I64 to V bracket?
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:08 pm
by Alicia Morgan
Thanks for all your input. I did finally create my own using the Shape Designer in Expressions, and I'm adding your smart shape to a library as well, Peter - thank you so much! I can stretch out the one in Expressions if I need to by double clicking and using the pink resize handles.
As I said on the other forum, I'm just wondering why, considering that I see the bracket so much in examples of analysis, and especially in the Kostya book that is a standard textbook for tonal harmony, that it is not included in fonts used for harmonic/Roman numeral analysis. There are so many obscure, strange and esoteric symbols in some of these special fonts, you'd think it would be included, instead of having to painstakingly create it by hand
Expression Shape Bracket.png
Re: Roman Numeral Analysis - Cadential I64 to V bracket?
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:56 pm
by miker
Why not look at some other music fonts that have what you want? You may he able to use them in Finale.
Why aren’t they included? Honestly, I don’t remember very many requests for that. Maybe if more people wanted it, it would happen. But probably not, considering they can’t even be bothered to fix bugs.
Re: Roman Numeral Analysis - Cadential I64 to V bracket?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 3:58 am
by zuill
Alicia Morgan wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:08 pm
Thanks for all your input. I did finally create my own using the Shape Designer in Expressions, and I'm adding your smart shape to a library as well, Peter - thank you so much! I can stretch out the one in Expressions if I need to by double clicking and using the pink resize handles.
As I said on the other forum, I'm just wondering why, considering that I see the bracket so much in examples of analysis, and especially in the Kostya book that is a standard textbook for tonal harmony, that it is not included in fonts used for harmonic/Roman numeral analysis. There are so many obscure, strange and esoteric symbols in some of these special fonts, you'd think it would be included, instead of having to painstakingly create it by hand
Expression Shape Bracket.png
After double-clicking to get the pink handles, double click again within the expression and get the fine tuning handles for even more control.
Zuill
Re: Roman Numeral Analysis - Cadential I64 to V bracket?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:36 am
by Alicia Morgan
That's the thing - I've looked at a whole bunch of different fonts. Some of them are only figured bass fonts, which means there are no Roman numerals. But I looked at the Opus fig bass, November, Campania, Bravura, & Figurato (and more) as well as Finale Numerics. None of them have the brace. If you know of any other fonts that have Roman numerals as well as figured bass, I would love to check them out.
But it just seems strange to me that the symbol that I see constantly in harmonic analysis - the bracket for the cadential 64 and its following V - would not be in any of these fonts. I see so many arcane, obscure, hardly-ever-used symbols in these font sets, and not this one bracket. Oh well.
Re: Roman Numeral Analysis - Cadential I64 to V bracket?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:42 am
by Peter Thomsen
Alicia Morgan wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:36 am
… But it just seems strange to me that the symbol that I see constantly in harmonic analysis - the bracket for the cadential 64 and its following V - would not be in any of these fonts …
If you need a (horizontally) stretchable bracket, then a font character will not do.
Font characters do not stretch - that is actually an important feature with fonts.
If a font character is included in a stretchable shape, then the font character will not stretch with the shape (and you do not want the character to stretch).