Fill measures with real half rests

[JamesY]

I notice that there is a plugin to fill measures with real whole rests. Is there the equivalent for half note rests?

[Peter Thomsen]

It is not clear what you are asking for:

A. Time signature 2/4, fill each measure with one real half rest.

B, Time signature 4/4, fill each measure with two half rests.

A or B?

The better we understand, the better we can help.
Please explain
1) what you need,
and
2) why.

What is the best solution, depends on your answers.

[JamesY]

Thanks for the reply. It's been a while but I want to do the same thing again. I have empty measures that are filled with whole rests regardless of time signature. My entire document is in 3/4 but each empty measure is filled with a whole rest. I'd like to find a plugin or some easier way to fill every empty measure with a dotted half rest to fit the time signature.

[Anders Hedelin]

What possibly could be confusing is that a whole rest can have two meanings: 1. a whole note rest 2. a whole measure rest.
Personally I would find it a little confusing to see a (dotted) half rest, in stead of a whole rest, in an empty measure. My first reaction would be: Is there something missing? Because you always see (dotted) half rests together with something else in the measure - notes or rests - never alone in a measure.

[JamesY]

Thanks for the reply. I was always under the impression that you use the proper length rest to fill a measure according to the time signature. It looks weird to me to have measures of 3/4 and then fill it with a whole note rest. I'm not sure what the standard is, though, so if a whole note rest can fill a measure of 3/4 then I suppose that would work. I had never heard of the whole note rest meaning a measure rest in any key signature before.

[JamesY]

Ok so I read up on it and it seems you are right - the centered whole rest is standard notation for an empty bar regardless of time signature (although it doesn't seem to apply to measures greater than 4/4). thanks for the help.

[zuill]

I use the whole measure rest in 5/4.

Zuill

[Anders Hedelin]

You are welcome JamesY. There is one situation when an (apparently) empty measure receives a shorter rest than a whole rest, and that's an upbeat (anacrusis). The explanation for that would be that it's not a whole measure but just a part of it.

[miker]

Zuill, do you do that as a tuplet, or by mousing it in from the rests palatte?

[Anders Hedelin]

I use the whole measure rest in 5/4.

Zuill

I think it applies to even larger measures. A whole measure is a whole measure.

It seems that we write at cross purpose here. If I'm not wrong Finale automatically fills an empty measure with a whole rest, however large it may be.

[zuill]

miker:

First off, I have the option to fill a measure with rests turned off. It is annoying to me.

In 5/4, the default whole rest and the real whole rest are centered. So, it can be entered with a keyboard shortcut, rest palette, or with the plugin. If you have the option to fill rests automatically at the end of a measure, then you'll need to use a workaround. I suppose the tuplet might be the best approach. Since I don't fill with rests, that isn't needed for me.

Zuill

[Anders Hedelin]

FWIW there might be some situations where you don't fill a whole measure with a whole rest.
A. When you want to make clear that something is happening on a beat later on in the measure (useful mainly in parts):

Fill with rests 1.PNG (32.11 KiB) Viewed 4783 times

B. When you want to make clear the division of a time like 5/4 into 3/4 and 2/4 (here with the additional help of a dotted barline):

Fill with rests 2.PNG (32.59 KiB) Viewed 4783 times

[motet]

The only reason to put a real whole rest in an empty bar is to put a fermata on it. In the situation with a time signature greater than 4/4, "Fill with rests" perhaps would add another rest if you visit it with Simple or Speedy entry, but if that happens--and you are not so likely to visit that bar, since it's empty--you can just press Undo. The tuplet solution strikes me as overkill, and I think it cannot be copied.

[zuill]

The tuplet tool approach is copyable, at least for me. About the other suggestion (by Anders)I don't see a need for subdividing a measure of rest in 5/4. If one wanted to use a dotted barline to show the breakdown, I suppose that might provide some help, but I would only do that if the groupings of 2 and 3 were changing frequently. In Tchaikovsky's 6th Symphony, the pattern of 2+3 is consistent. All the empty measures use a whole measure rest. In the manuscript, of course, he just left those measures blank. Finale automatically has the default whole rest to save the trouble of entering a whole rest in empty bars.

Zuill

[motet]

In the case of wanting a real whole rest for fermata's sake, the all-rest tuplet appears to be copyable only if you select the whole stack; otherwise, it copies a non-tuplet real whole rest. So, not such a good solution.

[zuill]

I tested with a one staff default file. However, in the case of a whole measure rest with a fermata, in most cases, the whole stack is what you want. I know there are occasions where some instruments rest for the whole bar but some only have the fermata on a later beat. However, in my experience, combining the 2 is dangerous for the ensemble. I generally break up the other instruments' rests to match the ones that are playing to demonstrate the beat on which they are having their fermata. Otherwise, if it is a GP, the measure stack is the way to go.

I believe if you go to the linked part, one staff, that you can copy/paste there.

Zuill

[Anders Hedelin]

About the other suggestion (by Anders)I don't see a need for subdividing a measure of rest in 5/4. If one wanted to use a dotted barline to show the breakdown, I suppose that might provide some help, but I would only do that if the groupings of 2 and 3 were changing frequently. In Tchaikovsky's 6th Symphony, the pattern of 2+3 is consistent. All the empty measures use a whole measure rest.

Zuill

Actually this was taken from a job I had where the composer wanted to clarify the metric pattern in the first measure only of a section in 5/4. After that first measure all the following ones had normal whole rests. No problem with that I'd think.

[zuill]

Sounds good to me. That's less cluttered than I had imagined.

Zuill

[motet]

Zuill, I make arrangements of operas and the situation where some instruments have a fermata over the whole bar and others have notes is very common. There can be dozens of these in one opera. As an experienced pit musician, I have not found it dangerous. On rare occasions where the rester comes in the next bar and there's some tricky pick-up, I'll put in a cue. But usually people just watch for the downbeat.

Fortunately, Finale often gives us several ways to do things, according to our tastes, so whatever works best for the individual.

[zuill]

When I prepare music for sessions where there may only be one pass, I have developed the approach that works for me. I have seen it both ways, but what I do, generally, has been the best option. I'm well aware of the philosophy that you have been using in the operas.

Zuill