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lynndavidnewton
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Finale Version: 25.5.0.259
Operating System: Mac

Post by lynndavidnewton » Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:57 pm

I'm running Finale 25.something on an up-to-date Mac.

Sorry for the eyebrow-raising subject header, and I don't even know if this is the right place to ask this, but is there a version 27 coming down the pike anytime soon?

I know there are employees of the company associated with this list (which is a good thing), and I'm not asking to divulge anything confidential. But I've recently seen some ads to get Finale 26 at a very low price, and what that suggests to me is that version 26 is about to be abandoned because something new is coming along.

For the record, I'm not a heavy user of Finale in the sense of using it for volumes of stuff. Sometimes I to have to push the edges a bit in order to get it to do what I want on the two or so projects a year that I use it for. (Again, not enough reason to spend on the latest version.)

I've generally kept up with the new releases, but I never got around to updating to version 26 because I just didn't see much in it that was new and that I needed, so as long as 25 is supported, what's the point of upgrading? But in the spirit of keeping up with releases, the price in the current advertising is inviting. But I'd be unhappy to see an announcement of a version 27 in a month or so—depending on what additional features it has.

As a former software engineer, I appreciate the wisdom of keeping up with releases for the sake of bug features, performance issues, and little details that some people will barely notice if at all.


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motet
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Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
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Post by motet » Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:10 pm

lynndavidnewton wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:57 pm
I've recently seen some ads to get Finale 26 at a very low price, and what that suggests to me is that version 26 is about to be abandoned because something new is coming along.
As I think Mike Rosen pointed out, since there are no DVDs or printed manuals anymore, there's no old stock to get rid of, so that's probably not reason for the sale.

Since it sounds like you're happy with V. 25, I wouldn't worry about it.

lynndavidnewton
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Post by lynndavidnewton » Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:15 pm

Thank you motet, that sounds reasonable.

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miker
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Finale Version: Finale 27.4
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Post by miker » Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:27 pm

I think they’re just trying to get some income. Things are tight right now, and since a developed version costs nothing to “ship” it’s a chance to get something in the coffers.

Also, if you plan on upgrading to Big Sur, I think you will have to go to v.26.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
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motet
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Post by motet » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:49 pm

I wonder how much time MM has to spend chasing Mac OS changes rather than fixing bugs and adding features.

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miker
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Post by miker » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:17 pm

I’m sure that’s a factor, but consider all of the bugs that have gone unfixed even when Apple wasn’t making so many changes.

If I had to point a finger at anything, it would be the Peaksware purchase and the move to Colorado.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
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motet
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Post by motet » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:21 pm

Yeah. They're now owned by some holding company, no?

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miker
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Post by miker » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:01 pm

Gear bailed to start a new venture, and I thought one of the partners took it over. But it may well be some anonymous holding company.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
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ebiggs1
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Finale Version: Finale 27.3
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Post by ebiggs1 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:51 pm

One thing against Finale's future is, it is a mature program. What are they going to add? Yeah, ignore bug swats for now. For instance I use Photoshop as much as I use Finale. My version is several years old as I have not upgraded recently. The newer versions of PS does not do anything that my older version can't. However, it does do most of the things, I have to do manually, automatically. Yes it does have a little better selecting ability. But what do we want as a NEW feature in Finale beyond something done automatically? One reason I suggested they incorporate Perfect Layout as standard.

I also would like to see a real text editor. I realize that isn't maybe a top priority for a general composer but it is a good one for us music teachers. I bet even general composers would find it useful too. A highlighter is high on my list too. My gut feeling is MM is putting all its programing muscle into Smart Music and the web sharing thingy right now so Finale is on the back burner. And the burner is turned off!
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.

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michelp
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Finale Version: 27.4.1,26.3.1, Mont.
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Post by michelp » Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:19 pm

Some tools are really limited. The Shape editor (drawing tools are limited, some copy/paste limitations, etc...), the Chord suffix editor (its window should be bigger, with percentage views, nudging with the arrow keys). These are basic tools, completely manual, way before any automatisation, and they are poorly designed. There is room for improvement, and we would appreciate it.
Michel
MacOsX 12.7.4, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua

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motet
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Post by motet » Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:51 pm

Finale should be able to word-wrap in a box, but other than that, I disagree that Finale should do text editing, which can be done elsewhere.

The shape editor could be improved by making zooming in easier. It could be as simple as double-clicking. Also a way to propagate changes and see the effect in the score without having to leave the editor and then re-enter it to tweak, which can be very tedious.

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miker
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Finale Version: Finale 27.4
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Post by miker » Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:58 pm

One thing I would like to see (no pun intended) is for the zoom icon in chords, articulation, and expression dialogues actually work. Make the contents of the frames larger, and not just the frames.

It gets harder every year for me to see the little stuff.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
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ebiggs1
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Finale Version: Finale 27.3
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Post by ebiggs1 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:13 pm

Some tools are really limited.
Although I totally agree, however, these are enhancements to tools not NEW features. It certainly would be nice if everything we have worked as it should.

And to anybody that doesn't want to use a real text editor, that's fine don't use it. But for the rest of us without one we can't use it if it isn't there. This would be a simple thing to do as it can probably be purchased as a package and MM has only to install it. The same argument goes for Perfect Layout. If you don't want to use it, don't but let the ones of us that do have it.

I don't use all the plug-ins included in Finale and I bet most of the rest of you don't either. I don't use Finale script. I still don't go around discouraging MM to include them.
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.

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miker
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Post by miker » Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:49 pm

If they can add Perfect Layout without adding to the price, I’m fine with it. Same with a text editor. If it doesn’t cost me more - or distract them from fixing decades old bugs - do it!

I’ve looked at PL. I just don’t need it for the work I do. I asked about one feature that would make it worth purchasing, but they told me it couldn’t do it.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
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ebiggs1
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Finale Version: Finale 27.3
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Post by ebiggs1 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:02 pm

If they can add Perfect Layout without adding to the price, ...
Ok, I'm OK with that. I just want some things removed like the guitar chord thing and scripts and extract parts and some others so MM can reduce the price because I don't use that stuff.
...or distract them from fixing decades old bugs - do it!
Do you really think decades old bugs are top priority? Or, are even going to be addressed whether we get a real text editor or not?
I’ve looked at PL. I just don’t need it for the work I do.
I said the same thing! I was wrong.
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.

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motet
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Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
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Post by motet » Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:06 pm

Personally I would like to see old bugs fixed before new features are added. Some of the bugs are quite serious.

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miker
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Finale Version: Finale 27.4
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Post by miker » Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:51 am

Finale is what it is. It does some things well, some not so well, some not at all. I will continue to ask for what I want, rather than what you want. That’s life.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
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ebiggs1
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Finale Version: Finale 27.3
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Post by ebiggs1 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:53 pm

I will continue to ask for what I want, rather than what you want.
However miker that was not the point. I don't lobby against you.
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.

K-Rek
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Finale Version: 26
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Post by K-Rek » Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:34 am

Hi,
First message here in this forum, Finale user for more than 20 years, lots of fun and pain (not at the same time!) using this software. I'd like to see a new MIDI Tool with an easy way to adjust velocity, modulation etc. Although Finale doesn't look cool today, kind of abandoned software, it's capable for great output.
Finale 26.3 for Mac, Mojave 10.14.6
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David Ward
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Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
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Post by David Ward » Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:08 am

Unless I've missed it, in Finale it's still more of a fiddle than desirable adding different page offsets to linked parts. I believe both Sibelius and Dorico do this easily. As always there are several ways round this, but…
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6

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motet
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Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
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Post by motet » Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:28 pm

David Ward wrote:
Sun Dec 06, 2020 8:08 am
Unless I've missed it, in Finale it's still more of a fiddle than desirable adding different page offsets to linked parts. I believe both Sibelius and Dorico do this easily. As always there are several ways round this, but…
Yeah. I've given up on page numbers in Finale entirely. I add them in PDF.

BuonTempi
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Finale Version: Finale 27
Operating System: Mac

Post by BuonTempi » Mon Dec 07, 2020 8:19 am

motet wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:49 pm
I wonder how much time MM has to spend chasing Mac OS changes rather than fixing bugs and adding features.
As a fraction of the entire decade of 'code modernization', you mean?

I'd suggest that once MM has updated their code from the old libraries which were already deprecated in 2010, (QuickDraw, Carbon, etc) (which Apple has only recently removed after several years of fair warning) keeping in step with Apple is actually pretty easy, and not the oft-imagined Sisyphean task.

Sibelius, MuseScore and Dorico all use Qt, a third-party framework that provides the platform-specific features, letting the programmers concentrate on everything else. Perhaps maintaining two code bases just doubles the work for MM.
ebiggs1 wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:51 pm
One thing against Finale's future is, it is a mature program. What are they going to add?
Finale is far from feature-complete. It remains the only major software app that does not do collision avoidance (Ok, slurs and artics...), vertical spacing and justification of staves and other objects. Adding dynamics, slurs or lyrics that would otherwise collide should automatically move staves apart -- in real time, not after remembering to run some plug-in.

Arguably, most of the plug-ins should be replaced as automatic baked-in features. Apply beaming settings only when you press the "Apply beaming settings" button? How absurd!

The very fact that Finale still has a 'Redraw Screen' function is a ridiculous relic from a third-century ago.

Finale's problem is that there is little imperative to fix anything because there is very little that cannot be done somehow. You can visually achieve any result - albeit with a lot of manual work and 'faking'. Nevermind that other apps have dedicated features that do the work for you. There's also the constraints of ensuring that documents from v1 still open correctly, and a userbase that actually doesn't want things to change too much. If you're looking for progress, this isn't the app.
lynndavidnewton wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:57 pm
I know there are employees of the company associated with this list (which is a good thing)
I don't think there are any employees that post here. You're lucky if you can get one replying on their own Customer Success Forum, frankly.

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ebiggs1
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Finale Version: Finale 27.3
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Post by ebiggs1 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:35 pm

Finale's problem is that there is little imperative to fix anything because there is very little that cannot be done somehow. You can visually achieve any result - albeit with a lot of manual work and 'faking'.
The definition of a "mature program".

As I made a point of with the comparison to Photoshop. Also a mature program. The newer versions don't really do anything new, it just does them automatically.
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.

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ebiggs1
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Finale Version: Finale 27.3
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Post by ebiggs1 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:39 pm

... most of the plug-ins should be replaced as automatic baked-in features.
These do need to be backed in tools with proper in software coding.
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.

BuonTempi
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Finale Version: Finale 27
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Post by BuonTempi » Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:42 pm

ebiggs1 wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:35 pm
Finale's problem is that there is little imperative to fix anything because there is very little that cannot be done somehow. You can visually achieve any result - albeit with a lot of manual work and 'faking'.
The definition of a "mature program".
Well, in that case, Illustrator is a fully 'mature' music notation program, because you can visually achieve any result there, too.

I, however, would argue that maturity suggests a greater degree of support and understanding.

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