Adjusting tenor sax range?

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bj nick
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Post by bj nick » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:28 pm

So on my new template I created (6-piece jazz group: trpt., tenor, piano, guitar, bass, drums), tenor sax defaults to bass clef. I changed it to treble clef (where it belongs), but the notes above the staff are yellowed (telling me they're too high.) I realize tenor sax sounds an octave lower than written, so Finale is technically correct, but I need to edit the range so that I can write the parts a tenor player would actually play. Thanks!
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heinzfan
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Post by heinzfan » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:43 pm

Did you set the transposition in the score manager? This will normally be automatic when adding or changing an instrument in the score manager. When I added a tenor sax in the score manager it defaulted to treble clef, set the key signature for a Bb instrument, and the display was transposed up Maj 9th. Is this what you did?
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miker
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Post by miker » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:59 pm

In the View menu, you have the option to turn off “out of range” notes.
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bj nick
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Post by bj nick » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:57 pm

Heinzfan, I just "added" tenor sax when I created the template. Mike, I'd rather not do that. This is something I need to learn since I'll be using it a lot.
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motet
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Post by motet » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:05 pm

I think there's a beginner/intermediate/advanced level to that setting, no?

I also suggest turning it off and instead get to know the instruments' ranges and tessituras so you don't need it.

I do believe there's a SQL file that specifies the ranges, though, that can be edited with a SQL editor.

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motet
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Post by motet » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:13 pm

If you added tenor sax with the set-up wizard and are getting bass clef, it sounds like you're using "Display in concert pitch." That removes transposition. If so, notes above the treble clef would be extremely high for tenor sax.

Concert pitch (after changing clef):
0744.png
0744.png (30.4 KiB) Viewed 2812 times
Transposed:
0743.png
0743.png (37.98 KiB) Viewed 2812 times

bj nick
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Post by bj nick » Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:58 am

Yeah, that's it. I want to see the score in concert pitch; didn't realize it would put the tenor sax in bass clef, which is sort of ridiculous. I just want to see all the instruments in the same clef/key, which makes my job infinitely easier. I do have the "advanced" setting on in terms of range. Does this mean I can't see tenor sax/trumpet in concert key?? I find that hard to believe....gotta be a simple way to do this...
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motet
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Post by motet » Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:31 am

Bass clef is not ridiculous. In "display in concert pitch," the notes are shown as they sound in the octave where they sound, so tenor sax range falls more naturally on the bass clef. In treble clef, its low B-flat would require five ledger lines. But you can switch back and forth between clefs.

With "Advanced", the tenor sax isn't orange until a written (transposed) F# above the treble staff (or concert E at the top of the staff) which puts it into John Coltrane land, I think (sax players correct me if I'm wrong). The trumpet becomes orange at a written B five ledger lines above the staff, a very high note.

The "Advanced" range is the same sounding pitches whether transposed or not, though the notes appear at a different place.

I suspect you're confused and are perhaps thinking an octave off. Switching back and forth between Display in Concert Pitch and not might be helpful. If you want, attach your document here.

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Post by bj nick » Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:36 pm

Thanks for this, no, not confused at all, except with understanding how to use finale the best way for me. I've written tenor sax parts for 40 years or so and I'm well aware of what their range is for advanced players and less advanced alike. I want to see in my little score the tenor sax notes as the sax player would see them, (or down a step since it's in concert.) That's all I want. If you can tell me how to get that, that would be great.
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motet
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Post by motet » Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:09 pm

Just uncheck "display in concert pitch."

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Post by bj nick » Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:20 pm

Okay, so maybe my confusion is the difference between "pitch" and "key." I want to have the score all in concert KEY; so for example, this first piece is in concert F, so I'll be writing everything in F, understanding that when the parts are printed, the trpt. and tenor will be in G, etc. I know what the concert pitches actually are (tenor sax an octave down, etc.) But I don't want to see on my score, tenor sax parts that are an octave down from where they'll be on the transposed part. How do I do that? (for now, I've turned off the out-of-range notifications, as I don't need them for this stuff....but for the time being on my "classical" explorations I do, as I haven't had much experience with certain orchestral instruments. Further study/experience will render it unnecessary.)
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zuill
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Post by zuill » Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:34 pm

If you want the parts to display properly, then you need to keep the transposition as is. When in the score, using concert pitch view, you'll see the notes a 9th lower than written in transposed view. I don't think there's any way around that. However, if you prefer to see them in Treble, as opposed to Bass, that is doable. Just change the First Clef for the Tenor Sax to Treble (default at setup is Bass).

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motet
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Post by motet » Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:48 pm

Try using the treble clef with an 8 underneath it (used for the tenor voice) instead of the treble clef in "Display in concert pitch." That will show it an octave higher than it really is, but playback will be what you want. You can probably leave "display out-of-range notes" on as well. Use the normal clef in the transposed part.

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Post by bj nick » Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:13 pm

Thanks, I'll try that and report back.
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Post by ebiggs1 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:25 pm

This isn't really too hard if you don't mind the ledger lines. Set everything to concert pitch and key.
You can change the clef sign to treble and write it as you like. When you are through you can, select, use the 8 or 9 key on the keypad to transpose down or up an octave as needed for playback or correct reading of your score.
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