add cues staves in a extracted percussion part
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
Hello! When I extract the parts from a score and start working on them, it is very useful to insert bars (one or more) with the musical part of some other musical instrument that therefore serves as a guide,
in Italian they are called "guide" and I don't know if the exact translation is "cue".
I have no problems when I do this with the other parts but when I work with the percussion parts
if I use copy / paste they result in very different musical lines and with different note heads depending on the position!
If I change the instrument for several measures (it doesn't work for one measure only), I can insert the musical parts of the other instruments (which I then insert in Layer 2 and reduce by 75%) but it doesn't always work
and moreover links are created between the " cue "parts about bass clef and violin.
So my question is: to get "cue / guide" bars in a percussion part what is the right procedure?
Can the add cue notes plug-in work when the part has already been extracted from the score?
Thanks for your help!
Corrado
in Italian they are called "guide" and I don't know if the exact translation is "cue".
I have no problems when I do this with the other parts but when I work with the percussion parts
if I use copy / paste they result in very different musical lines and with different note heads depending on the position!
If I change the instrument for several measures (it doesn't work for one measure only), I can insert the musical parts of the other instruments (which I then insert in Layer 2 and reduce by 75%) but it doesn't always work
and moreover links are created between the " cue "parts about bass clef and violin.
So my question is: to get "cue / guide" bars in a percussion part what is the right procedure?
Can the add cue notes plug-in work when the part has already been extracted from the score?
Thanks for your help!
Corrado
-
- Posts: 760
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:34 am
- Finale Version: Finale 26, 27.4.1
- Operating System: Windows
I don't know if this is what you are looking for, but my method is to duplicate the entire score when it's as good as ready, to a parts score where the linked parts can be edited. So you don't have to extract any parts at all. (If you do, they will have no linking to the score whatsoever.)
To be more specific, if you want a separate staff for cues in a percussion part (or percussion score, with all the percussion instruments), you'll have to create that in the score already (with Score Manager), having it show where needed only. Without extracting parts of course.
Others have clever methods of keeping everything in the same document: score, linked parts and cues. There was a thread here recently discussing that in some detail if you want to check:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19579
To be more specific, if you want a separate staff for cues in a percussion part (or percussion score, with all the percussion instruments), you'll have to create that in the score already (with Score Manager), having it show where needed only. Without extracting parts of course.
Others have clever methods of keeping everything in the same document: score, linked parts and cues. There was a thread here recently discussing that in some detail if you want to check:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19579
Finale 26.3, 27.4.1
Windows 10
Windows 10
- motet
- Posts: 8293
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
- Operating System: Windows
The plug-in won't work between the score and an extracted part; that's one of many reasons not to extract. But you could use the plug-in in your score, then copy those measures from score to extracted part. The plug-in uses layer 4, not layer 2.
As you've discovered, a percussion staff can't display normal notes. So use Change instrument to "Blank staff" first for those measures where you want to put cues. It should work for a single measure, though probably not for a partial measure. I'm not sure what you mean by "links are created between the cue parts about bass clef and violin"--can you elaborate? And I'm not sure why "it doesn't always work." I encourage you to use the plug-in in the score and then copy it into your extracted part--the plug-in does several things for you automatically. As Anders says, you can make a separate copy of the score to do this if you want.
As you've discovered, a percussion staff can't display normal notes. So use Change instrument to "Blank staff" first for those measures where you want to put cues. It should work for a single measure, though probably not for a partial measure. I'm not sure what you mean by "links are created between the cue parts about bass clef and violin"--can you elaborate? And I'm not sure why "it doesn't always work." I encourage you to use the plug-in in the score and then copy it into your extracted part--the plug-in does several things for you automatically. As Anders says, you can make a separate copy of the score to do this if you want.
Hello! Thanks "Anders" and thanks "motet"!
This is my first time using this forum and it is very nice and encouraging to have relevant and helpful answers!
I seem to have understood that fundamentally my way of extracting the parts and then working on them is not the most orthodox one ... But I have always done this because having the parts of every single instrument you can better evaluate the details and sometimes you discover forgetfulness and errors.
Surely making a copy of the score, inserting the cues and then copying them is perhaps the quickest and most effective way.
Actually I was proud of my method where I also use two Finale scripts that I made to transform the copy paste into cues ...
I'll try to learn the correct way!
Regarding the cues in the percussion parts I think that "motet"'s advice "So use Change instrument to" Blank staff "" solves the problem I mentioned "links are created between the cue parts about bass clef and violin" because if I change instrument and then change key, the key changes automatically even in cues made previously.
Anyway thanks again to both of you and "Buona Musica"!
Corrado
This is my first time using this forum and it is very nice and encouraging to have relevant and helpful answers!
I seem to have understood that fundamentally my way of extracting the parts and then working on them is not the most orthodox one ... But I have always done this because having the parts of every single instrument you can better evaluate the details and sometimes you discover forgetfulness and errors.
Surely making a copy of the score, inserting the cues and then copying them is perhaps the quickest and most effective way.
Actually I was proud of my method where I also use two Finale scripts that I made to transform the copy paste into cues ...
I'll try to learn the correct way!
Regarding the cues in the percussion parts I think that "motet"'s advice "So use Change instrument to" Blank staff "" solves the problem I mentioned "links are created between the cue parts about bass clef and violin" because if I change instrument and then change key, the key changes automatically even in cues made previously.
Anyway thanks again to both of you and "Buona Musica"!
Corrado
- ebiggs1
- Posts: 1434
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Recently I have found if you want certain things a certain way it is best if not easier to have a "regular, normal" score. A separate score for parts and another separate score for sound. This renders the best of that specific reason for being I can think of. The problem here is you need to be aware if you change the "regular" score to do so in the others.
I never extract parts any longer.
I never extract parts any longer.
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
Hello "ebiggs1", thanks for your message.
Yes, I'm using a score for playback too: it works much better especially for percussion!
You wrote "I never extract parts any longer": how do you work on the single parts if you don't extract them?
Thanks!
Corrado
Yes, I'm using a score for playback too: it works much better especially for percussion!
You wrote "I never extract parts any longer": how do you work on the single parts if you don't extract them?
Thanks!
Corrado
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6627
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
It sounds like you are not familiar with linked parts?
Document menu > Edit Part > …
Finale has had linked parts since Finale 2007.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
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You mention 'percussion parts'. It sounds as if it were for more than one player, but if it's for just one, I think the advice given already might be sufficient. If it's for more than one player, I might be able to give you one method how to do that.
Last edited by Anders Hedelin on Sat Dec 05, 2020 3:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Finale 26.3, 27.4.1
Windows 10
Windows 10
- ebiggs1
- Posts: 1434
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:57 am
- Finale Version: Finale 27.3
- Operating System: Windows
I use "Linked Parts" like Peter Thomsen mentioned. WHen you are in your score, press Ctrl + Alt + . (period key). That will bring up your first part. Press them again and your next part comes up and so on............... If you want back to the score press Ctrl + Alt + /.how do you work on the single parts if you don't extract them?
This is for Windows so if you're using a Mac you will need to get the correct keystrokes.
BTW, if you want to progress backwards, the last part first, press, Ctrl + Alt + , (comma).
The beauty of this is a change in the score is updated in each part automatically. If you extract parts, you create a completely new file. It is unrelated to your score. In Linked Parts, there is a menu where you can "un-link" (not affected by changes in the score). However, you can also "re-link" it. Plus, you can "show" or "hide" things, too.
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
- ebiggs1
- Posts: 1434
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:57 am
- Finale Version: Finale 27.3
- Operating System: Windows
I'm using a score for playback too: it works much better especially for percussion!
Percussion is where a separate sound file helps the most. Percussion is the worst of the sounds in Finale, IMHO, of course. I go so far as to put as many percussion instruments on a single staff as I can. It certainly takes to most effort to get a somewhat acceptable sound, IMHO, again.
Percussion is where a separate sound file helps the most. Percussion is the worst of the sounds in Finale, IMHO, of course. I go so far as to put as many percussion instruments on a single staff as I can. It certainly takes to most effort to get a somewhat acceptable sound, IMHO, again.
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
Thanks again everyone!
I feel a bit embarrassed because I too have been using Finale for many years...
but I almost always use the same methods I learned from the beginning or with practice (self-taught)
and until now no one has helped me so clearly and directly.
From the next job I will treasure your advice!
Ciao!
Corrado
I feel a bit embarrassed because I too have been using Finale for many years...
but I almost always use the same methods I learned from the beginning or with practice (self-taught)
and until now no one has helped me so clearly and directly.
From the next job I will treasure your advice!
Ciao!
Corrado