Extra beats

[oceanave]

No, not extra heartbeats (aka PVCs!) For some reason, I am having trouble with Finale adding extra beats and placing them outside the measure! I tried adjusting the time signature to get rid of them, but it's not working. Ordinarily this is not a problem for me but I'm writing a cadenza and for each measure, you have to enter a time signature of like 25/4 in order to get all the notes into that measure. Finale actually puts them out in the blank space of the page. Is there a way to fix this? Please see attached image.

[motet]

Perhaps you have too much music for one system.

I just went through writing a cadenza (for voice and flute). What I did was enter it in multiple measures with normal time signatures like 2/4, 3/4, and 4/4, chosen for convenience. Mine spanned multiple systems, so I got the system breaks where I wanted, then used JW Meter and Rhythm to combine the measures of each system into one large measure. This method should make entering the music easier for you.

[oceanave]

You lost me entirely after your second sentence. I don't know what "systems" are. At least, not in Finale.

[motet]

There are two systems in your picture, and two in mine.

Notes in the margin are often a sign that Automatic Update Layout is turned off. If so, turn it on (and leave it on).

[ebiggs1]

There isn't a JW Meter and Rhythm for Windows. There is JW Conceal Bar Lines, though. I would enter the music as regular and use the JW Conceal Bar Lines.

[motet]

I was speaking from 32-bit land, but it looks like there's a "test port" of a 64-bit JW Meter and Rhythm. Does it not work?

[ebiggs1]

No, I don't try them as they are first efforts and are nearly 5 years old without updates or fixes. My understanding is the MM programers jumped in and helped get the 32-bit ported over to 64-bit. The main ones listed separately for d/l are those. It doesn't look like any effort is being made to make JW Rhythm and Copy released/updated for general use. Perhaps it works as is?

[motet]

Looks like JW is perhaps gone for good, but the test versions are worth a try.

[ebiggs1]

Not really. I had some issues with Finale ( long time back) and it was tracked down by the MM tech to a JW plug-in. I don't recall which one right now but I am not going to ask for trouble. Everything is working as it should for what I do on my main desktop computer. Windows don't usually suffer form the issues of compatibility the Mac guys do and I want to stay that way.

It is a crime MM doesn't incorporate what JW plug-ins do into the main program. Beta test it and makes sure it works. Thank heaven Perfect Layout and JW exists.

[motet]

Looks like Conceal Barlines removes the space at the start of the measures, so that's good. A reason for having all one measure, though, is so that you can easily put a centered whole-rest with fermata in the staves that aren't playing the cadenza. As someone pointed out to me the other day, there's a "Merge Measures" plug-in that will do the trick.

[oceanave]

Thanks - but where do I find "Automatic Update Layout" so I can turn it on?

[motet]

Preferences/Edit, but if you didn't turn it off, it's probably on. Worth checking, though.

[oceanave]

Conceal barlines does work (so thanks for that tip!) The problem is with the time signatures and Finale auto-populating the extra beats with rests. You can't just write a cadenza in one bar on Finale. You have to put in a time signature of something like 75/4 for the equivalent of 75 quarter notes. If you try to delete them, they eventually come back. If you try changing the time signature (like to 73/4), it will actually change the values of some notes in the bar. There should be an option in Finale to allow for 'breaking the metric rules of a bar'. A really good example of this is triplets - like a group of eighth note triplets counting for 1 quarter note in time value, or something like a group of three half notes which are played as triplets, but perhaps not exactly in metered rhythm.

[motet]

Meanwhile, you can turn off "fill with rests." But I stand by my advice above to not write it in 73/4.

[Peter Thomsen]

… The problem is with the time signatures and Finale auto-populating the extra beats with rests. You can't just write a cadenza in one bar on Finale. You have to put in a time signature of something like 75/4 for the equivalent of 75 quarter notes. If you try to delete them, they eventually come back. If you try changing the time signature (like to 73/4), it will actually change the values of some notes in the bar. There should be an option in Finale to allow for 'breaking the metric rules of a bar' …

1) Instead of deleting the rests on the “extra beats”, hide the rests.

2) A time signature of 75/4 indeed sounds scary.
But there are some options:
- you can hide the time signature,
or
- you can write the notes as a “giant” (not displaying) tuplet, like e. g. 75 Quarters in the space of 4 Quarters.
If playback is an issue, you may have to lower the playback tempo considerably during the “tuplet cadenza”.

[zuill]

Looks like JW is perhaps gone for good, but the test versions are worth a try.

I'm not sure what you mean.

Zuill

[ebiggs1]

Looks like JW is perhaps gone for good,...

If he means what I think he means, I would add MM and Finale to that list. Of course the complete lack of communication and course of the future on eithers part may be to blame. I feel Finale is falling behind, just my humble opinion though. You may disagree.

However, it is not hard to see how the other biggies are progressing, is it?

[motet]

Looks like JW is perhaps gone for good, but the test versions are worth a try.

I'm not sure what you mean.

Zuill

I mean that Jari has not been heard from for a few years, as far as I know, and the plug-ins are languishing (the 64-bit versions still in a "test" state years after 64-bit Finale came out).

Is anyone in touch with him? Has he lost interest? Gone over to Dorico? Or just busy with other things?