Stable or unstable measure width.

[David Ward]

The attached file is the cello part of a piece for cello and piano I finished in manuscript exactly twenty years ago yesterday, and which I typeset using Finale 2001 as my first Finale project in April 2001. It opened without problems in Finale 26, so I have been able to adjust this and that aspect of the ‘engraving’ in light of my Finale experience since.

Anyway, the width of bar 30 shrinks back causing a problem with the metronome marking if I select the whole system/stave and key 4. This is more or less what I have come to expect from Finale. However, bar 334 retains its extra width when I do the same with it. Since that is what I'd always prefer, the retention of whatever width I have set, can anyone identify what is causing the difference in behaviour between these two bars in the same file?

(This rather backward-looking piece was performed by Rohan and Druvi de Saram in June 2001. If anyone is interested, please DM me so I can provide a link to a recording of their committed and highly intelligent performance, in which the cello really sings.)

[motet]

Applying music spacing will always undo any manual measure width adjustments, since music spacing takes into account all the selected measures in order to space them. 334 is a 54/8 bar and is full of hidden rests, which evidently continue to participate in the measure spacing. So, I don't think there's any "respace, but don't change custom measure widths." I suspect Finale doesn't remember whether a measure width was changed manually. I have certainly wished for such a feature myself!

[Jetcopy]

In measure 334, the meter is 54/8 for the cadenza. Even though beats are hidden, Finale is still leaving space for them. Since linked parts aren't used here, I would just change the meter of ms. 334 to 9/8, then respace. (to match the preceding measure)

[zuill]

If one ever wants to retain the barline manual editing, then the best way is with Jari's JW Note Spacing plugin. There's an option called Fixed Barlines. This will keep the measure size as-is and applying spacing only within the measures.

Zuill

[mmike]

If one ever wants to retain the barline manual editing, then the best way is with Jari's JW Note Spacing plugin. There's an option called Fixed Barlines. This will keep the measure size as-is and applying spacing only within the measures.

... but when I afterwards do Finale Music Spacing it does still not seem to retain the supposedly fixed barline (no matter if Document Options / Music Spacing is set to Incorporate or Ignore Manual Spacing.
So, other than doing any manual spacing only at the very end of finalizing a document (which is what I' usually do when necessary), has nobody come up with a better way? (what, for instance, happens in this situation with Perfect Layout? I don't have/use it, just wondering ...)

[David Ward]

In measure 334, the meter is 54/8 for the cadenza. Even though beats are hidden, Finale is still leaving space for them.

Ah! That's it: thanks.

Since linked parts aren't used here, I would just change the meter of ms. 334 to 9/8, then respace. (to match the preceding measure)

In a way maybe I quite like the over-long looking bar here. Any thoughts from anybody?

[zuill]

... but when I afterwards do Finale Music Spacing it does still not seem to retain the supposedly fixed barline (no matter if Document Options / Music Spacing is set to Incorporate or Ignore Manual Spacing ...

I meant to use the plugin for all the spacing, checking that box each time. You can leave the box open so you don't have to keep launching the plugin each time. If the places where the barline needs moving are limited, that can be the last step in preparing the score or part.

Zuill

[motet]

So, other than doing any manual spacing only at the very end of finalizing a document (which is what I' usually do when necessary), has nobody come up with a better way?

Well, that's the way. Tempting and fun as it is, it doesn't work to override Finale's spacing defaults as you're entering music and have Automatic Music Spacing turned on or otherwise are applying spacing to an entire document.

The JW plug-in option to respace without moving barlines sounds promising--I didn't know about that. But I think the situation that comes up most frequently is that you need to make one measure in a system a little wider or narrower and want to then respace the others in the system to the right and/or left of it, freezing only that one measure width. Can it do that?

[motet]

Here's a situation that comes up for me a fairly often.

Suppose I want to widen a measure as I've done in measure 3 here:

Now I need to respace the other measures in the system. Normal spacing will destroy my new measure width. JW Note Spacing with fixed barlines doesn't help, because I in fact want the measure widths to change for all but measure 3. It turns out that JW Space Empty Rests with the function Redistribute Non-Rest Measures will do what I want:

It needs to be done in two pieces, 1-2 and 4-5.

This still leaves measure 3 fixed in place horizontally, which is OK in this case but if things weren't so uniform maybe still not optimal. But it helps!

[mmike]

JW Space Empty Rests with the function Redistribute Non-Rest Measures will do what I want

Indeed it does! That works pretty well as a work-around, although it might get a little cumbersome if you have many of these (since you have to apply music spacing separately for all the "in-between" segments). Still, a good idea and, like you said, it helps. I would nevertheless do it as the very last thing before finishing and printing a score.