Finale Forum

Greetings all

I hope you’ll allow me a non-Finale question. I am currently working on a music terminology in Esperanto. Concerning time signatures, I’ve always classed them as either ‘simple’ or ‘compound’, but a Polish colleague doesn’t accept that. In Poland time signatures are either ‘simple’ or ‘combined’. They are all based on 2 beats or 3 beats, so, for example 4/4 is a combined 2/4 + 2/4; 6/8 is a combined 3/8 + 3/8.

It would be good to find out which of the two systems is the most widespread in the world.

Many thanks in advance!

Andreo Basisto

Never heard of "combined." In any case, you perhaps still want to distinguish between what most people call simple and compound, which it looks like the Polish system doesn't do.

Andreo Basisto wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:42 pm

In Poland time signatures are either ‘simple’ or ‘combined’. They are all based on 2 beats or 3 beats, so, for example 4/4 is a combined 2/4 + 2/4; 6/8 is a combined 3/8 + 3/8.

This is not necessarily a typical polish terminology, but merely describes the historic origin of time signatures, which derive from the proportions in mensural notation (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensural_notation).
Whether you prefer "compound" or "combined" is a matter of taste.

If 4/4 is "combined" as Andreo said, it's not just a matter of taste.

Greetings Motet and HaraldS - Just a quick reply to thank you for your comments. I'm pleased to say that my Polish friend has now 'come round' to my way of thinking and has realised that the simple/compound way of grouping time signatures is probably universal and that the Polish system is possibly unique to Poland.

We have both learnt a lot from this exercise and our e-mail discussions.

Thanks again for your contribution

Andreo Basisto

Interesting to hear about the "Polish" system, Andreo. I prefer it to the simple/compound terminology, which has alway struck me as illogical. 4/4 is as "compound" as 6/8.

It is certainly not strictly Polish to name any time signature that does not simply consist of two or three beats 'compound', because that's what the word 'compound' means. For some odd reason terminology that makes no sense at all has taken ground in the Anglo-Saxon world. In other languages the difference between a simple (meter that consists of either two or three beats, 2/4, ⅜, etc.) and a compounded meter (composed of more than one group of either two or three beats, 4/4, 5/4, 6/8, etc.) is still respected.

Thanks for that information, Jay. We Anglo-Saxons need to change our illogical ways.

I think there has to be some way of referring to 6/8, 9/8, 12/8, etc. collectively.

motet wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 28, 2021 3:27 am

I think there has to be some way of referring to 6/8, 9/8, 12/8, etc. collectively.

Certainly: compound meters. 6/8 Being compounded of two groups of three eights, 9/8 of three groups of three eights, etc.. Just as 4/4 (two groups of two quarters) and 5/4 (two groups, one of two and one of three or vice versa) are compound meters.

Why call a meter 'compound' when the grouped beat consists of three rather than two units? What is compounded in that? Musical meters, as well as linguistic metres, always divide into rhythmical groupings of two or three notes/syllables. So, two units on a beat is as 'simple' as three units. A meter is compounded when it consists of more than one group (4/4 instead of 2/4, e.g.), regardless whether that group consists of two or three units or the compounded meter is a mixture of groups of two and three units. In short: compound would be what now is known as duple, triple, quadruple, etc..

Just out of curiosity: what would a 5/4 time signature be as the nomenclature in English now is? A 'both simple and compound duple meter'?

Greetings all!

Many thanks for the extra contributions from John Ruggero and Jay Emmes. Hmm – it seems that my Polish friend has some support!

However, as I have already mentioned, he now accepts the system of ‘simple’ and ‘compound’ time signatures, but I have not used those terms in my Terminology as I feel that they don’t tell us anything useful (as indeed Jay points out). My terms will be takto duerpulsa (metre with a two-part pulse) and takto trierpulsa (metre with a three-part pulse) to distinguish between traditional simple and compound. So we can have, for example tritakto duerpulsa (simple triple) and kvintakto trierpulsa (compound quintuple).

Andreo