How to make custom line 22 to work with Piano Pedal?

[Jun Yamamoto]

Question: I can control Piano's damper pedal with Smart Shape>Custom Line 16 but not with Custom Line 22. Why? And any way to Custom line 22 to act as Damper on/off?

In other words, I cannot find the function to combine a certain custom line with MIDI control #64 data.

Thanks in advance.

Finale v 26. 3. 1. 520 on Windows 10.

[michelp]

If you want that line, you can get the sustain effet with an expression -> Playback -> Type -> Controller -> 64 Pedal sustain + Enter a value (rather high).
You will need a second expression to stop the sustain (value = 0)

[zuill]

Human Playback is very finicky (just like "Human" players). Unfortunately, Robert P., who created the whole thing, gave us little control over the beast. However, knowing a little about what HP is looking for can lead to surprising results.

See attached file an let me know what you think. If it behaves for you like it did for me, I will tell you what I did to get the desired result.

Zuill

[Jun Yamamoto]

If you want that line, you can get the sustain effet with an expression -> Playback -> Type -> Controller -> 64 Pedal sustain + Enter a value (rather high).
You will need a second expression to stop the sustain (value = 0)

I understand that two different expression mark do the job. I wonder how a custom line do the on and off of sustain pedal. Thank you anyway for your input.

Sincerely,

[Jun Yamamoto]

Human Playback is very finicky (just like "Human" players). Unfortunately, Robert P., who created the whole thing, gave us little control over the beast. However, knowing a little about what HP is looking for can lead to surprising results.

See attached file an let me know what you think. If it behaves for you like it did for me, I will tell you what I did to get the desired result.

Zuill

Dear Zuill, thank you as always.

YES! this is what I want...the second custom line with CC#64 on and off.
Please tell me the story....

I can't wait...

Sincerely,

[zuill]

I poked around and it seemed there was a connection between custom arrowheads and HP being triggered to sustain. So, if you look at the Smart Shape I created (bottom of the list), instead of the usual hook at the end, I created a custom arrowhead to look like a hook. That seemed to have triggered the sustain. HP is fickle, and this is just another place where you have to outfox HP.

Zuill

[zuill]

I discovered an even easier way to get any non sustaining Smart Shape to sustain, without much extra work. See attached

Zuill

[Jun Yamamoto]

Thank you, Zuill.

I barely understand that the shape (endpoint) is tied to a pedal switch.

Anyway, I saved your file as a "seed" to my "Finale" directory, and from time to time will use it for the purpose.

Thank you again.

Sincerely,

Jun Yamamoto

[zuill]

Robert Piechaud designed HP to use certain notation elements to trigger certain playback behavior. It's built in to the HP code. However, very little control or understanding of the connections between notation elements and playback result is known to the user, or is under the control of the user.

Font slot 161 is also a trigger for Piano sustain. The Ped symbol resides in slot 161 in the Maestro Font. That's how Robert programmed HP to work. So, in my latest file, I still used the hooks on each end of the line you tried (22 in the list). However, for the "text" at the start of the shape, I choses slot 161 with Maestro Percussion Font, which is a blank character. However, even though you don't see it, because it is in slot 161, it triggers the Sustain playback. Strange, but true. I believe only using that in the beginning text spot works. I tried it in the middle with no sustain result.

I wish we had a list of the triggers he programmed into the code, so we could at least intelligently develop workarounds. There are other triggers that have caused users issues (I believe the character for the Mordent, or maybe short trill, is another one).

Zuill

[Peter Thomsen]

… There are other triggers that have caused users issues (I believe the character for the Mordent, or maybe short trill, is another one) …

Indeed.

In the Maestro font the two short trills are located in the character slots
77 (which in a text font is uppercase M)
and
109 (which in a text font is lowercase m)

For me HP interprets both trills.

This can cause un-expected “interpretation” of a text that uses M or m.

You can avoid this un-expected “interpretation” by using a shape created in the Shape Designer.
HP does not seem to detect font characters (such as M or m) in a text block inside a shape.

Shapes can be used in an expression - shape expression- or in an articulation - shape articulation.

[Jun Yamamoto]

The story is now very deep, I guess.

I tried to add "text" (#161 even blank in Maestro percussion), but not successful.
The dialog box I am working on is correct one, or maybe n

ot.

[zuill]

The font is Times New Roman. That upside down exclamation mark is what you see. You can also use that font and choose Hidden. However, if you have the option chosen to show hidden text faintly, that may bother you to see it. If you select that character, then click the Text word at the top, you can change the font there. If you examine my file where I did that, you can see that the font is Maestro Percussion, which has a blank character in slot 161.

If you select the measure in my document and copy/paste it to your document, that custom line should now be in your list, at the bottom.

Zuill

[Jun Yamamoto]

Dear Zuill,

Thank you very much for detailed explanation.

The "cut and copy" works perfect so that I do not need to know the technical detail but curiosity kills my time

In the right red circle in my picture, I can select the character but I cannot see the character itself or insert a new character. Is this the way the function expected? (I can insert "title" or "copyright mark" there, but it would be no use here, wouldn't it?)

Of course I do not need it right now but if I want to insert another character at the end of the line, how can I do it?

Thank you again.

Sincerely,

Jun Yamamoto