Expression Tool

[TJ_2187]

I'm working on some music and I am trying to get my saxophone section (consisting of 2 alto saxes, 2 tenor saxes, and 1 bari sax) to play only the 2nd time through on a repeat. I have tried using the expression tool and creating my own expression following all the steps I could find. However, all I can manage to do is make the whole section extremely quiet for both times through. Can anyone help me figure out why this is? Thanks!

[miker]

Can you post the file, so we can peek under the hood?

[zuill]

Seeing a file would help. However, the very quiet result is a known issue with using instruments such as Garritan. The normal method is to have the expression set the Velocity to 0 (zero). However, the result is a very quiet sound. I have found that a better method is to use an Expression to change the Channel of the instrument to an unused channel. Afterward, you need to have an Expression to change it back.

Zuill

[heinzfan]

I use an expression that sets continuous controller 7 (volume) to zero to shut off the channel's sound; a second controller 7 expression is used to restore it.

[zuill]

Regarding Controller 7, what is the number you use to restore it?

Zuill

[heinzfan]

Depends on what I set it to originally. As I recall there was a bug in the system: if the number in the score manager volume column is set to something other than the default 101, cc7 will change by a percentage of that number. As an example, set the score manager volume to 80: cc7 will drop to 79. Then insert a cc7 expression of 100 ... and it will remain at 79, the volume being capped by the score manager setting. This only seems to happen if the volume is set in the score manager column, not in the actual graphical mixer window. If the default volume in the score manager is left at 101 any cc7 expression changes will be correct and absolute - even up to 127. I'm not sure why it works that way (maybe I'm missing something), but I reported this to Coda years ago.

[zuill]

I have had issues using the Volume method, as I recall. I suppose that's why I use the Change Channel method, as it works pretty much 100% of the time. I can't recall a spot where it didn't work.

Zuill

P.S.: I just tested the Controller 7 (Volume) approach. Even though the Instrument Volume was set to 101 in the Score Manager, in the Aria window, it appears that the slider is closer to 110. I created an Expression set to 101, and that was lower than the Aria slider. An Expression set to 110 matched the Aria slider position. It says -2db, but the actual CC7 amount is not displayed anywhere.

[ebiggs1]

I know it has it own pain but I have gone to making two files. One for the score and one for the sound. I would write out the repeats instead of using a repeats for the sound file. Of course the score file is what the musicians will use and play from. With a separate sound file you can make any instrument do just about what you want it to without issues or big changes.

[heinzfan]

I have had issues using the Volume method, as I recall. I suppose that's why I use the Change Channel method, as it works pretty much 100% of the time. I can't recall a spot where it didn't work.

Zuill

P.S.: I just tested the Controller 7 (Volume) approach. Even though the Instrument Volume was set to 101 in the Score Manager, in the Aria window, it appears that the slider is closer to 110. I created an Expression set to 101, and that was lower than the Aria slider. An Expression set to 110 matched the Aria slider position. It says -2db, but the actual CC7 amount is not displayed anywhere.

It's a mystery to me. The Vienna Ensemble player used for my Vienna samples displays both pitch and expression, which is how I tested this. However before switching to VST I had the same issue with my synths - setting the score manager mixer to less than 101 capped the cc7 volume, with the resultant problem I described (any cc7 expression would be changed by a percentage of the score manager setting).

Given the vagaries of Finale's control interrelations, your method of switching channels would probably work best for people using Garritan/Aria.