Misbehaving rests in 12/8

[motet]

A Facebook user says when he copies the first bar in the first system below, he always gets what you see in the second bar in the second system, with its reversed rests on beats 3 and 4. When I copy a whole measure, I don't have that problem; it only occurs if I copy a partial measure and let Finale fill with rests. He says his quantization settings for dotted rests are the same as mine (simple, no; compound, yes). But he has V26 and I don't. It seems unlikely that this has changed, but can someone with V26 check?

[zuill]

Can you post an image or a file?

Zuill

[zuill]

(simple, no; dotted, yes).

While we're waiting for the image referred to in your original post, did you mean Simple No, Compound Yes?

Zuill

[motet]

Sorry. Here it is. It shows the result of copying from staff 1 to staff 2. In the first measure, the full measure was copied. In the second, just the highlighted notes. The Facebook poster says it gets the measure 2 result in measure 1 as well. Yes, I meant "allow dotted rests in compound meter", not "dotted" meter.!

This is reminiscent of the "fill with rests" problem in 12/8.

[David Ward]

This still happens in 12/8 & 9/8 fill with rests, but I think may now be mostly a Mac problem.

I've just checked something I seemed to remember about this. If one uses fill with rests and then corrects the rests before using that bar as a source for copy and paste, the error is recreated in the destination. However, if the rests are entered manually in the source bar, it seems to copy and paste correctly.

[zuill]

For me in v26, copy/paste works correctly with a full measure but flips the rests when only the first quarter of the measure is selected. When half of the measure is selected, then you're okay.

Zuill

[motet]

David's right--if you let "fill with rests" make its mistake, then correct it by deleting the dotted half rest from the middle and letting "fill with rests" add it back at the end, then it doesn't copy correctly. Yet, comparing it with "Edit Frame" to a measure where the rests were entered manually, I find no difference.

Thanks to you both.

[zuill]

The problem happens either way for me. Copying 1/4 of the measure ends up with the rests flipped. Also, with Fill With Rests turned off, it still fills with rests when copying. It's a retranscribe issue. If you set the measure up properly, then click retranscribe, the rests flip.

Zuill

[motet]

In measure 1, staff 1, everything was entered manually. In measures 2 and 3, staff 1, I entered the C, then let Finale fill with rests. In measure 3, I then deleted the dotted half rest from the middle of the bar and let Finale fill one at the end, getting what you see here. I then copied everything from staff 1 to staff 2. As you can see, measure 1 copied verbatim, but measure 3 didn't.

[zuill]

Got it. Finale v26 does the same thing.

However, you were wrong on 1 very important detail. There is a check box called Beam/Beat in the Speedy Edit Frame.

So, after "Fill With Rests" does it's job, and you delete the dotted half rest, then let "Fill With Rests" add the dotted half at the end, look at the Speedy Edit Frame. You'll see that the dotted half rests does not have the Beam/Beat boxed check. Retranscribe or copy/paste flips the rests. However, if you check that box (which is checked in the Manually created measure), the rests won't flip on Copy/Paste. However, Retranscribe does flip the rests.

I suppose someone could report these findings to MakeMusic. Would you?

Zuill

[zuill]

Follow-up:

Checking that box fixes the measure created and edited using "Fill With Rests".

Unchecking that box does not cause the measure created Manually to misbehave. I find that intriguing. Maybe there's another checkbox I am missing. Hopefully another set of eyes can find another difference.

Zuill

[motet]

Thanks for the correction. I took some screen shots of the frames and was flipping back and forth, but must have somehow missed that flag.

I guess I could report the "fill with rests" error, but they probably know about that. With the subtler issue, and I fear the difficulty of describing it, and the back and forth of "I can't reproduce it," followed by their missing the point and offering a work-around to get rid of me. I'm so glad for the resource of you, Peter, Mike, and the others here!