Text Block Bug?

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mark carlson
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Post by mark carlson » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:14 pm

This has been happening for months, and it seems to happen only when I am trying to edit the title of a piece: I click on the handle of the text block so that I can edit the title, but when I click within the box, the box around the text disappears and I have to try again. OR sometimes, I click with in the box, and the cursor appears ABOVE the box and makes editing anything impossible. After about 10 tries, I finally get it to work correctly, but I'm in a hurry by this time, so then I tell myself I'll report it here next time it happens. Finally, I am asking for help with it!

I created a file that I could post by deleting all but the first page of a long movement, and sure enough, then it started to work fine! But much to my surprise, I am able to attach the whole movement, which I thought would be too big. I also took a screenshot so that you can see the cursor above the box, in case that helps.

Has anyone else had this problem, and does anyone know a solution? It's really, really irritating.

Thanks,

Mark

OS 11.2.3
Finale 26.3
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Screen Shot 2021-04-29 Title Text Box.jpg
EB III. Kate's Aria-Duet MC.musx
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zuill
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Post by zuill » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:34 pm

Since I'm not having any problems, it might be unique to Mac. Also, since this is a file that started as a Finale 98 file, there's bound to be some things that are a result of data in the file from those days, whereas newly generated files would be absent any legacy data, which sometimes can cause unusual behavior.

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wessmusic
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Post by wessmusic » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:35 pm

Box disappearing around the text is annoying as well as missing cursor, which is also an issue when working with Text expressions in 26.3 Mac version. I sent a ticket to MM and hope, that in next version these problems will be addressed.
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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:37 pm

I sometimes have trouble creating a new text block, so the tool does seem a bit flakey,

When I open your file, I don't get a box around the title as shown in your picture.

How are you editing the text? You can either double-click on the handle, or right click and pick Edit Text. In either case, I get this:
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0862.png
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mark carlson
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Post by mark carlson » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:52 pm

motet wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:37 pm
I sometimes have trouble creating a new text block, so the tool does seem a bit flakey,

When I open your file, I don't get a box around the title as shown in your picture.

How are you editing the text? You can either double-click on the handle, or right click and pick Edit Text. In either case, I get this:
The box around the text only shows when you click or double-click on the handle. It's not meant to show in the score itself.

I've been double-clicking on the handle and have had this trouble happen. I just now right-clicked and picked Edit Text, and it worked fine.

Thanks!

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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:01 pm

Ah--on Windows the box is a broken line.

Sounds like what's maybe happening is when you double click, Finale somehow misses that you've clicked on the handle and is starting a new box.

mark carlson
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Post by mark carlson » Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:08 pm

motet wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 5:01 pm
Ah--on Windows the box is a broken line.

Sounds like what's maybe happening is when you double click, Finale somehow misses that you've clicked on the handle and is starting a new box.
Actually, when I double click on it, it opens the editing window just fine, but when I click within that box, either the box around the text disappears, or the cursor goes outside the box, as in the screenshot I attached. Either way, I'm not able to edit it.

Hopefully, your right-click method will work fine from now on.

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Perotinus
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Post by Perotinus » Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:04 pm

Hi, folks,
Sometimes I have had troubles with disappearing text boxes when working on finale docs in Windows. One workaround that I have had some success with is changing the type of view I am using. See if displaying one page in Page View, rather than multiple ones, might help keep the box open for use. If that doesn't help, try a different PageView view.

Btw, I noticed this tends to happen to me in larger files near the latter part of the file. It may not be exactly what the OP was describing, but it doesn't surprise me that deleting part of the composition resulted in the problem disappearing at least temporarily.
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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:18 pm

mark carlson wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:14 pm
… Has anyone else had this problem, and does anyone know a solution? It's really, really irritating …
What always works for me (= no need for about 10 tries):

1) Drag-select around the text block handle, to select the handle.

2) Text menu > Edit Text…
This step leads to the window Edit Text where the text can be edited in a text editor.


mark carlson wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:14 pm
… it seems to happen only when I am trying to edit the title of a piece …
I never use the Text Tool to edit a Title.

Instead I always use the text insert:
Text menu > Inserts > Title

To edit the text insert “Title” I use the File Info:
Window menu > ScoreManager > File Info > Title

Also, I never use the Text Tool to edit the other text inserts, such as e. g. Subtitle, Composer, Arranger, Lyricist &c.
Instead I use the File Info to edit the insert text.
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zuill
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Post by zuill » Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:36 pm

I've heard of Text Block issues, but not something I have seen, at least in my best memory. I use Text Inserts as Peter describes. There is an issue with those if you try to edit them other than with the File Info window. Motet shared that info with us some time back.

You can also select the handle (one click) and then press Enter. Just another way to get there.

Question: do you have this problem with the other kind of Text Block (double click and drag while holding the second click)? Those show a double dotted line surrounding the Block while editing.

Zuill
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"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

mark carlson
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Post by mark carlson » Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:13 pm

Peter Thomsen wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:18 pm
mark carlson wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:14 pm
… Has anyone else had this problem, and does anyone know a solution? It's really, really irritating …
What always works for me (= no need for about 10 tries):

1) Drag-select around the text block handle, to select the handle.

2) Text menu > Edit Text…
This step leads to the window Edit Text where the text can be edited in a text editor.


mark carlson wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:14 pm
… it seems to happen only when I am trying to edit the title of a piece …
I never use the Text Tool to edit a Title.

Instead I always use the text insert:
Text menu > Inserts > Title

To edit the text insert “Title” I use the File Info:
Window menu > ScoreManager > File Info > Title

Also, I never use the Text Tool to edit the other text inserts, such as e. g. Subtitle, Composer, Arranger, Lyricist &c.
Instead I use the File Info to edit the insert text.
Thanks! I never thought of using Inserts for titles. I will now!

mark carlson
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Post by mark carlson » Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:15 pm

zuill wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:36 pm
I've heard of Text Block issues, but not something I have seen, at least in my best memory. I use Text Inserts as Peter describes. There is an issue with those if you try to edit them other than with the File Info window. Motet shared that info with us some time back.

You can also select the handle (one click) and then press Enter. Just another way to get there.

Question: do you have this problem with the other kind of Text Block (double click and drag while holding the second click)? Those show a double dotted line surrounding the Block while editing.

Zuill
I've never been aware of the other kind of Text Block until this moment. I'll give it a try. It shows up on the Mac with a double solid line, but same difference, I'm sure. Thanks!

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:23 pm

Those Blocks are fixed in size, so they don't automatically expand as text is added. These are better when you want special formatting in the Block, as I recall (Centering, Word Wrap, Justification, etc.). I might be fuzzy on that.

It's interesting that in the Mac documentation, it shows dashed lines, not solid lines, around Text Blocks during editing. Maybe that is an option I don't know about.

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David Ward
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Post by David Ward » Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:29 pm

I seem to get solid lines when editing the title of a piece here on Mac (screenshot). There are couple of interesting things, however. Not all the text seems to be highlighted automatically and in File Info only the first three words of the title (‘A Few Notes’) are present. None of this seems to matter, though, if I want to edit the title on the page using the Text Tool.
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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:11 pm

David Ward wrote:
Thu Apr 29, 2021 8:29 pm
… in File Info only the first three words of the title (‘A Few Notes’) are present …
The reason why only the first three words display in File Info, could be because there is a carriage Return after the first three words.
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zuill
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Post by zuill » Thu Apr 29, 2021 9:19 pm

Or, possibly the Title and Subtitle are both in that Text Block.

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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:02 pm

If I recall, replacing an insert in a text block by selecting it and typing results in the info data being changed rather than the insert being replaced.

My main problem with text blocks is when I double-click to add one, often nothing happens. If I then leave and come back, there's a handle with empty text that I can then edit. There was also some issue with putting a text block in a part which has a blank page inserted (the text block on a non-blank page, though). I forget what happens, though I do remember reporting it to MM. So many bugs...

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