What is the "purpose" of the page margins settings?
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
For example, when changing the bottom page margin of the first page the copyright notice moves up as well. But it's still just outside the page margin. It's also possible to add other text outside the page margin. So what is the actual purpose of the page margins, if they don't act as the "border" for what will be printed?
Windows 11, Finale 27.4.1
- David Ward
- Posts: 814
- Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:48 pm
- Finale Version: F 25.5 & 26.3
- Operating System: Mac
As it happens I've just in the last few minutes been adjusting the margins of a 247 page score so that the contents of all the right hand pages is shifted somewhat to the right to accommodate the binding, while keeping the default margins for the left hand pages. (There is a global option for having different margins for left and right hand pages.)
That's just one example, but there may be many different reasons for adjusting page margins, mostly, but not only, relating to printing and/or binding.
In Finale page numbers, copyright information and stave & group names are routinely outside the page margins. The information that goes to the printer (the machine, not the human) is usually such that these things outside the margins do print, as printing from Finale including to PDF is nearly (but not quite) borderless. However, that may not always be the case, so I usually reduce a PDF to 97% (or sometimes 95%) before e-mailing it to a commercial printer, especially if coil or similar binding is to be used.
Someone else on the forum will I'm sure be able to give a more technical answer with the correct terminology et al.
That's just one example, but there may be many different reasons for adjusting page margins, mostly, but not only, relating to printing and/or binding.
In Finale page numbers, copyright information and stave & group names are routinely outside the page margins. The information that goes to the printer (the machine, not the human) is usually such that these things outside the margins do print, as printing from Finale including to PDF is nearly (but not quite) borderless. However, that may not always be the case, so I usually reduce a PDF to 97% (or sometimes 95%) before e-mailing it to a commercial printer, especially if coil or similar binding is to be used.
Someone else on the forum will I'm sure be able to give a more technical answer with the correct terminology et al.
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6604
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
The page margins serve as a “border” for the systems.
That is, unless you tell Finale to “allow” margin collisions.
There is a setting in the Page Layout Tool:
Page Layout menu > Avoid Margin Collisions
By default, {Avoid Margin Collisions} is selected - which means that negative values are not allowed in the system margins.
But if you de-select {Avoid Margin Collisions}, negative values are allowed in the system margins - and you can position systems anywhere.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
Lots of good stuff here, thanks!David Ward wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 3:05 pmAs it happens I've just in the last few minutes been adjusting the margins of a 247 page score so that the contents of all the right hand pages is shifted somewhat to the right to accommodate the binding, while keeping the default margins for the left hand pages. (There is a global option for having different margins for left and right hand pages.)
That's just one example, but there may be many different reasons for adjusting page margins, mostly, but not only, relating to printing and/or binding.
In Finale page numbers, copyright information and stave & group names are routinely outside the page margins. The information that goes to the printer (the machine, not the human) is usually such that these things outside the margins do print, as printing from Finale including to PDF is nearly (but not quite) borderless. However, that may not always be the case, so I usually reduce a PDF to 97% (or sometimes 95%) before e-mailing it to a commercial printer, especially if coil or similar binding is to be used.
Someone else on the forum will I'm sure be able to give a more technical answer with the correct terminology et al.
Windows 11, Finale 27.4.1
No wonder that I find it confusing.Peter Thomsen wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 3:35 pmThe page margins serve as a “border” for the systems.
That is, unless you tell Finale to “allow” margin collisions.
So, if the page margins serve as a "border" for the systems, what is the purpose of the system margins?
That might be useful to me. Thanks!Peter Thomsen wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 3:35 pmThere is a setting in the Page Layout Tool:
Page Layout menu > Avoid Margin Collisions
By default, {Avoid Margin Collisions} is selected - which means that negative values are not allowed in the system margins.
But if you de-select {Avoid Margin Collisions}, negative values are allowed in the system margins - and you can position systems anywhere.
Windows 11, Finale 27.4.1
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6604
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
The System Margins control the precise positioning of each system relative to the Page Margins.
You can e. g. indent a specific system, by giving the system a bigger value for the system’s Left Margin.
You can set the default values for a document’s System Margins here:
Document menu > Page Format > …
Finale will use the default Page Format values when creating new systems/pages.
You can edit any system, and give it other margin values than the default.
With the Page Layout Tool you can “at one fell swoop” reset all margin values to the default values:
Page Layout menu > Redefine Pages > …
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
Peter Thomsen wrote: ↑Sun May 09, 2021 10:04 pmThe System Margins control the precise positioning of each system relative to the Page Margins.
Windows 11, Finale 27.4.1
- motet
- Posts: 8231
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:33 pm
- Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
- Operating System: Windows
The system margins keep each other apart.
I think you can safely ignore negative offsets and turning off "avoid margin collisions." Those are advanced concepts and not needed by most people.
I think you can safely ignore negative offsets and turning off "avoid margin collisions." Those are advanced concepts and not needed by most people.
Thanks, I came to think of the first part of your answer later. So it serves two purposes I guess.
I'll try that then.
Windows 11, Finale 27.4.1
-
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:47 pm
- Finale Version: 26.1
- Operating System: Windows
Perhaps Doug Blackmore's graphic representation of the margin system would help. https://forum.makemusic.com/default.asp ... 48#m262948
Ken
Ken
Maybe. I need to be alert when going through all that.KennethKen wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 7:32 pmPerhaps Doug Blackmore's graphic representation of the margin system would help. https://forum.makemusic.com/default.asp ... 48#m262948
Ken
Windows 11, Finale 27.4.1