Finale Forum

I have this issue this from time to time with a tie over from one system to another. I just tried this in a Finale default file and had the same issue.

I adjust a tie with the tie tool as shown: but when I leave the editor, the tie reverts This only happens to an outgoing tie on the first line, not the incoming on the second, and it seems to afflict only one tie in a group.

It looks like the ties move when you invoke the tie tool, so the tie tool is not reflecting reality! Here I haven't moved anything, just turned the tool on.

And I just noticed that this happens even without actually editing. The position of the tie starts out different within the tie tool from normally.

Motet, our minds must have melded and our responses crossed.

I think it may have to do with the setting for outer placement under Document Options>ties, because there is no problem if outer placement is not checked. If set for outer placement, the tie tool is not reflecting reality for the lower tie.

Just to see what would happen, I moved the tie drastically, with bizarre result:

I'm not getting the odd result. Maybe you're right about your settings. But you did mention the default file. Maybe that is customized. Can you post a sample here for us to test? I am using v26, but couldn't get the behavior in v25 either.

Zuill

What a mess.

Looks like with Utilities/Change/Ties you can turn "outer placement" off on an individual basis.

Here you go, Zuill.

I opened the v26 in v25 and no problem. I just tested a fresh v25 file, and the problem does show up.

So, I guess maybe v26 doesn't have this issue. if you have a v25 i could test in v26, that might help to troubleshoot this.

Zuill

That file does misbehave. Try this v26 file.

Zuill

Your file misbehaves in 2014.5 (I did have to redraw after leaving the tool). Did they actually fix a bug?

I don't see anything in the documentation or readme file. Maybe someone else with v26 can check this. I did get my file to misbehave in 2014.5, but not in v26.

Zuill

They were probably breaking something else, and accidentally fixed this.

More testing here. Try different zoom settings and see if that affects the behavior.

Zuill

P.S.: I can get some misbehavior with some zooms with my file in v26. However, not until I drag it way outside the staff, as in your demo picture. Close edits stay put. So, I'll have to look at the settings more closely.

When I invoke the tie tool, the tie moves at 75%, 100%, and 200%. If I move the tie, it continues to misbehave at all zoom settings. Redraw is sometimes necessary (another bug?) to reveal the true position of the tie after leaving the tool.

I guess my advice to John is to use Utilities/Ties to turn off "outer placement" on ties you need to adjust. In the dialog it looks your Outer Placement is unchecked, but you have to check it and then pull down "Off" with the drop-down (why didn't they use "half-checking UI feature"--blackened, instead of a check mark--to mean "no change", like they did with Avoid Staff Lines?).

I am glad you are both looking into this. I have also gotten the bizarre-looking slurs that slope wildly just by doing some ordinary reshaping. In any case, the solution I will use, since I am not going to move the Finale 26 any time soon, is to use the Change tie Utility on an individual basis. Thank you very much for mentioning that, Motet. (Oops, I see we just crossed posts again.)

This is the worst bug I have ever encountered with Finale. But I live a charmed life.

For fine tuning individual ties, the context menu (right-click) in the Tie Tool is a quick way to deal with them. For me, that is easier than the Change/Ties feature. Finale v26 has similar issues, but I don't get quite the behavior as in earlier versions. I believe it is a sum combination of the settings for ties. The Edit window gives the settings by the numbers for examination. Possibly v26 has different default numbers. Also, different tie lengths will have different default settings.

Zuill

I didn't realize "Outer placement" (and I'm still a little confused about what it does) could be turned off by right clicking on the handle and picking Edit. That does seem easier.

2014.5 numbers for the lower tie in your file:

I saw that. However, there still seems to be some other differences that might be different in my file that results from changes in the v26 Default file. Before I edited the tie, it said Default. After editing, it says On. I can turn it Off if needed. For the minor adjustments i made, On seems to work for me in v26. I should look more closely at some of the other settings.

Zuill

P.S.: Compared to your file, the numbers are quite different.

P.P.S.: When I create my own file in 2014.5, it too has numbers quite different than v26, more in line with your 2014.5 file. So, obviously, there are some differences in the default file between the 2 versions of Finale.

Thanks for the tip about right clicking the tie, Zuill. That is easier.