Enharmonic question

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Hector Pascal
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Post by Hector Pascal » Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:01 am

Hi all,
I'm in the key of F# minor and the melody goes C# D C# C natural C# D natural E# F#.
I am debating with myself if I should replace the C natural with a B#.
I tend to think the B# is most correct, however it looks funny...
Thoughts?
Hector.


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zuill
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Post by zuill » Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:10 am

Either one can work. It might depend on the context (other voices and harmony). In other minor keys, the raised 4th is the norm for me, so that would be B# in this key. I think today teachers are giving in to students with less than proper theory instruction, so they would probably suggest the "easier" approach, meaning C natural. I vote against that.

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motet
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Post by motet » Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:13 am

I don't know why it looks funny, but B# is the leading tone of the dominant of f# minor (C# Major) and so is correct.

Zuill beat me to it.

Hector Pascal
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Post by Hector Pascal » Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:30 am

Thank you motet and zuill. I concur. I feel most inclined to use what is correct in theory, despite it looking "funny". True, if one raises the fourth in other minor keys, then it makes sense to do so here. Maybe, in time, B sharps will thank me for making them look less "funny".
Cheerio and thanks,
Hector.

Anders Hedelin
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Post by Anders Hedelin » Wed Jul 07, 2021 9:01 am

A good question that. Which accidentals are funnier than others?
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Jay Emmes
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Post by Jay Emmes » Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:56 pm

Don't ask what's funny, ask which is correct. Obviously you're in a tonal environment and you should therefor follow the rules of tonality, which means you can't willy nilly enharmonically change notes.
In this case the only correct note is the b sharp.
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Hector Pascal
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Post by Hector Pascal » Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:13 am

Thanks, all, for the reassurance about using the "correct" spelling. I think what happened with me is that I entered the music in quickly via midi keyboard and sometimes the wrong enharmonic sneaked in and then I got used to seeing it wrong. Then when it came time to polish and correct, my eyes didn't like to see it change.

Anyway, all is well. I am happy with the proper spelling. Thank you all.
Cheers,
Hector.

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Post by Anders Hedelin » Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:38 am

Well, there's the context. It depends on the linear and harmonic direction whether the semitone below the dominant should be a raised fourth or a lowered fifth degree.
Accidentals 2.PNG
Accidentals 2.PNG (62.52 KiB) Viewed 2819 times
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Jay Emmes
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Post by Jay Emmes » Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:10 pm

Certainly, but the context in this case was given: "I'm in the key of F# minor and the melody goes C# D C# C natural C# D natural E# F#."
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Post by Anders Hedelin » Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:33 pm

The question of this thread was quite clearly 'C natural or B sharp' in the key of F sharp minor.
Last edited by Anders Hedelin on Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Non Troppo
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Post by Non Troppo » Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:35 pm

In this case the only correct note is the b sharp.
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Post by Anders Hedelin » Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:39 pm

Sorry for trying to widen the perspective. It might have caused some harm to some, apparently. Not intentionally, though.
And yes, yes, yes, in the melodic progression of C sharp - B sharp - C sharp, it's always B sharp. Elementary, my dear Watson.
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ttw
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Post by ttw » Thu Jul 08, 2021 10:55 pm

One point with going with the "correct" or "traditional" (B#) version is for ease of reading. I've got some rather irregular rhythmic patterns that I like, and thus overuse, but I still find these easier to read if written "correctly." I always figure that traditional music notation has had a few centuries of beta testers.

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Post by Alicia Morgan » Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:55 pm

As TTW mentions, just looking at the three examples, not only is the B# correct, but it is the easiest to read - to get a feeling of how the melody is moving.

Sometimes if I am transcribing something that doesn't really stick to one particular key and it's something more casual like a lead sheet, I may use the technically incorrect accidental, if it works within the context of the phrase - say, a song that starts in F# but modulates all around, like an F# chord that then goes to a C chord, if the melody is a C in context with that chord, I won't write a B#; I'll write a C (with a courtesy natural). To me, it is 100% about the context - the type of piece (classical, pop, rock, etc.), the type of player who will be reading that piece and what that player expects to see.

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Post by Anders Hedelin » Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:48 pm

ttw wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 10:55 pm
One point with going with the "correct" or "traditional" (B#) version is for ease of reading. I've got some rather irregular rhythmic patterns that I like, and thus overuse, but I still find these easier to read if written "correctly." I always figure that traditional music notation has had a few centuries of beta testers.
For the same reason it's easier reading, and understanding, music if you use an accidental showing a modulation, i.e. that we are leaving the main key, however shortly. As, in the case I showed before, a C natural leading to a harmony containing B natural. Also, if you work with music that is 'freetonal' - modulating all over the place, as Alicia says, you have to consider the chords themselves. A C chord following an F sharp chord is probably best spelled with a C natural.

I think the problem of B sharp vs. C natural is more than anything else a piano-teaching problem. All notes with accidentals are not black keys - you have to explain the principle of accidentals from the very start when you are talking of these funny signs.
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