Tiling??

[mark carlson]

For the first time in 32 years of using Finale, I am editing a piece for 11x17 paper, and I want to be able to print it out for proofreading purposes. I don't have a printer that prints 11x17 paper.

I'm following the directions for "tiling" to a T, and I just don't get it. I end up with 4 pages required for 1 page of the score, and the two that represent the right side of the page have what I'm guessing is a 5" margin in the right. This is hardly practical.

It would make so much more sense of it printed the top half on on letter-sized page in landscape orientation, and the bottom half on another letter page in landscape, thereby using only 2 pieces of paper instead of 4.

Does tiling actually work for anyone? What am I missing here? So far, it seems useless to me, but I know it's been a feature of Finale for eons, so there must be something right about it.

Mark
OS 11.4
Finale 26.3

[Jetcopy]

One solution would be to print your score at 11 x 17 to a PDF file. Bring that file to Staples, Office Depot, whatever, let them print a 11 x 17 paper copy for you.

Another option, if you can print to legal size, print a legal size score, then enlarge it at a photo copier to 11 x 17.

And your other option is to tile pages on letter size paper for a 11 x 17 finished score.

I used the tiling feature once a long time ago for the CSO, I think I was using FInale 2.0. In that case my final score was going to be 14 x 24. Each page got tiled horizontally using the 14" width and there were 3 horizontal copies for each finished page. There was a lot of taping and lining things up, very time consuming. In the end we had a beautiful big score which took a few music stands to hold this monster. I don't remember any more details but it worked well.

Personally, Since this is for proofing purposes I think tiling will be labor intensive, either of the other options would be much quicker.
Good luck.

[wessmusic]

Eleven years ago I was put in similar situation — I had to analyze (urgently) a score in A3 format during my stay at very small village in province, where I couldn't find large printer. Scaling down to 70% (A4) was not a solution due to 4 mm staves applied in this particular composition.
Here is what I did and hopefully this experiment could help you, too:
Open your Finale file and created a PDF:
Go to: File menu—>Print... —> Save as PDF (you are Mac user, aren't you)
Open the PDF file in Adobe Acrobat Pro (I do not know if PDF-Reader contains next possibilities)
Go to: View—>Zoom—> Fit Width (or scale it in order to visualize on your screen top half of the score).
Next: File—>Print—>Current view and from Page handling—>Page scaling—>Fit to printable area.
Print the already selected section.
Scroll down and repeat the process, but this time print the lower part of the page.
I would suggest to overlap (slightly or appropriately) both – upper and lower sections.

Cheers,
Wess

[mark carlson]

Eleven years ago I was put in similar situation — I had to analyze (urgently) a score in A3 format during my stay at very small village in province, where I couldn't find large printer. Scaling down to 70% (A4) was not a solution due to 4 mm staves applied in this particular composition.
Here is what I did and hopefully this experiment could help you, too:
Open your Finale file and created a PDF:
Go to: File menu—>Print... —> Save as PDF (you are Mac user, aren't you)
Open the PDF file in Adobe Acrobat Pro (I do not know if PDF-Reader contains next possibilities)
Go to: View—>Zoom—> Fit Width (or scale it in order to visualize on your screen top half of the score).
Next: File—>Print—>Current view and from Page handling—>Page scaling—>Fit to printable area.
Print the already selected section.
Scroll down and repeat the process, but this time print the lower part of the page.
I would suggest to overlap (slightly or appropriately) both – upper and lower sections.

Cheers,
Wess

Thanks, Wess.

No matter what paper size I set, I end up with the PDFs in letter size, so I end up with the same problem I had trying to use tiling. I wonder why I can't get a PDF that matches the 11x17 size of the score. Very frustrating!

[mark carlson]

One solution would be to print your score at 11 x 17 to a PDF file. Bring that file to Staples, Office Depot, whatever, let them print a 11 x 17 paper copy for you.

Another option, if you can print to legal size, print a legal size score, then enlarge it at a photo copier to 11 x 17.

And your other option is to tile pages on letter size paper for a 11 x 17 finished score.

I used the tiling feature once a long time ago for the CSO, I think I was using FInale 2.0. In that case my final score was going to be 14 x 24. Each page got tiled horizontally using the 14" width and there were 3 horizontal copies for each finished page. There was a lot of taping and lining things up, very time consuming. In the end we had a beautiful big score which took a few music stands to hold this monster. I don't remember any more details but it worked well.

Personally, Since this is for proofing purposes I think tiling will be labor intensive, either of the other options would be much quicker.
Good luck.

Thanks! All I really want is to print out the top half of a page and then the bottom half of a page so that I can proofread them. I don't even want to tape them together.

I am guessing that this tiling thing just doesn't work, unfortunately.

[mark carlson]

Eleven years ago I was put in similar situation — I had to analyze (urgently) a score in A3 format during my stay at very small village in province, where I couldn't find large printer. Scaling down to 70% (A4) was not a solution due to 4 mm staves applied in this particular composition.
Here is what I did and hopefully this experiment could help you, too:
Open your Finale file and created a PDF:
Go to: File menu—>Print... —> Save as PDF (you are Mac user, aren't you)
Open the PDF file in Adobe Acrobat Pro (I do not know if PDF-Reader contains next possibilities)
Go to: View—>Zoom—> Fit Width (or scale it in order to visualize on your screen top half of the score).
Next: File—>Print—>Current view and from Page handling—>Page scaling—>Fit to printable area.
Print the already selected section.
Scroll down and repeat the process, but this time print the lower part of the page.
I would suggest to overlap (slightly or appropriately) both – upper and lower sections.

Cheers,
Wess

Thanks, Wess.

No matter what paper size I set, I end up with the PDFs in letter size, so I end up with the same problem I had trying to use tiling. I wonder why I can't get a PDF that matches the 11x17 size of the score. Very frustrating!

I take it back. I was able to get it to 11x17. I'll fiddle with it to figure out how to print just the top or bottom of a page in Preview. I think there is a way.

[motet]

I would do it in the PDF realm rather than try to get Finale to do it. If you want to send me your 11 x 17 PDF, I'm happy to cut in in half for you. Send me a PM if you'd like that.

[mark carlson]

I would do it in the PDF realm rather than try to get Finale to do it. If you want to send me your 11 x 17 PDF, I'm happy to cut in in half for you. Send me a PM if you'd like that.

Thanks, motet! I'm actually a long ways off--a week or two--from being ready to do this; I was just trying to figure out in advance how to do it so I'd know what I was up against. I'll gladly take you up on your offer when the time comes.

Mark

[zuill]

I'm using Windows, so Mac my work differently. I printed to PDF with CutePDF. I chose tiling. I then chose to Letter, Landscape. I got a warning that the page size didn't match the document paper size. I selected to proceed anyway. That worked fine. The only problem is that, when printing the PDF, when I choose Actual Size, it cuts off the lowest staff (top of page) a bit. So, I chose Fit. Then it didn't cut off anything. I only tested with a blank 11X17 score, so without music in it, I can't compare to what you are working with.

Printing directly from Finale cut off staves too close to the bottom (maybe top as well) margins (each half of page). I suppose there are settings I could have tested. I am using and Epson printer. It was easier to print to PDF and then choose fit. It only shrinks the music down a smidge that way.

Zuill

P.S.: I see the confusion in the instructions. it says to choose Portrait and Letter. That is a mistake, from my perspective. You really want 2 Landscape pages, one on top of the other. The size result is 11X17. I didn't try portrait, but that makes absolutely no sense. Sometimes the documentation is wrong. The better part of wisdom is knowing what is wrong, and that can be a daunting task with Finale's documentation.

[motet]

Zuill's directions work for me. Below I've shown the border between the two resulting PDF pages.

The cutting-off when physically printing is probably due to the fact that most printers won't print all the way to the edge ("full bleed"). There's a 1/2 margin or so that can't be printed to, depending on the printer.

If it were me, I'd print to tabloid (ledger) sized PDF normally and proofread from that rather than printing out hardcopy. If you must have a hardcopy, then Zuill's "fit" may suffice, but if a system is split it will be difficult proofreading it with the printer page margins interspersed. A better option may be to take an untiled tabloid PDF on a thumb drive to a copy shop and have them print it for you.

[motet]

Here's an enlargement from the print dialog for my printer. The black border is the page size, and the gray margin just inside it is what the printer won't print; you can see that the bottom (partial) staff will be cut off.

[mark carlson]

I'm using Windows, so Mac my work differently. I printed to PDF with CutePDF. I chose tiling. I then chose to Letter, Landscape. I got a warning that the page size didn't match the document paper size. I selected to proceed anyway. That worked fine. The only problem is that, when printing the PDF, when I choose Actual Size, it cuts off the lowest staff (top of page) a bit. So, I chose Fit. Then it didn't cut off anything. I only tested with a blank 11X17 score, so without music in it, I can't compare to what you are working with.

Printing directly from Finale cut off staves too close to the bottom (maybe top as well) margins (each half of page). I suppose there are settings I could have tested. I am using and Epson printer. It was easier to print to PDF and then choose fit. It only shrinks the music down a smidge that way.

Zuill

P.S.: I see the confusion in the instructions. it says to choose Portrait and Letter. That is a mistake, from my perspective. You really want 2 Landscape pages, one on top of the other. The size result is 11X17. I didn't try portrait, but that makes absolutely no sense. Sometimes the documentation is wrong. The better part of wisdom is knowing what is wrong, and that can be a daunting task with Finale's documentation.

This is so strange: When I chose landscape, rather than portrait, the exact same thing came out as when I did it according to directions with portrait. See attached.

[zuill]

What program are you using to print to PDF?

Zuill

[mark carlson]

What program are you using to print to PDF?

Zuill

What I showed you was as it prints directly from Finale. I just turned it into a PDF so that I could show you how it came out.

In Page Setup, I chose letter size, landscape. And in printing it from Finale, I chose letter size paper, even though the score is for 11x17. And then I chose "tile pages", and what I showed you is how it came out. But I also tried it with 11x17 paper selected in printing from Finale, and it just printed out the whole page reduced. I wish I understood, but I have come to the conclusion that tiling just doesn't work in Finale.

I use Preview, the built-in Mac program for PDFs, et al.

[zuill]

I am going to guess the problem is Finale's built-in pdf feature. Do you have access to print to a third party pdf printing program. i think CutePDF is available for Mac. I have no problem creating tiling with CutePDF. Worth a try.

Zuill

P.S.: I don't think CutePDF has a Mac version. However, there might be other free PDF printing programs for MAC. Again, I think the Finale built-in feature might be the problem.

P.P.S. After reading your post again, you said you printed directly and then converted to pdf. Was that via scanning? I was thinking you were printing to pdf from Finale. Sorry about the misunderstanding. In any event, a third party pdf program should allow you to tile when printing to PDF.

[motet]

In Page Setup, I chose letter size, landscape. And in printing it from Finale, I chose letter size paper, even though the score is for 11x17.

Just to be clear, Page Size in Document/Page format/score should be tabloid. Paper size in the print dialog should be Letter, Landscape.

[mark carlson]

I am going to guess the problem is Finale's built-in pdf feature. Do you have access to print to a third party pdf printing program. i think CutePDF is available for Mac. I have no problem creating tiling with CutePDF. Worth a try.

Zuill

P.S.: I don't think CutePDF has a Mac version. However, there might be other free PDF printing programs for MAC. Again, I think the Finale built-in feature might be the problem.

P.P.S. After reading your post again, you said you printed directly and then converted to pdf. Was that via scanning? I was thinking you were printing to pdf from Finale. Sorry about the misunderstanding. In any event, a third party pdf program should allow you to tile when printing to PDF.

Actually, Macs have for many years had an automatic PDF creator built into the Print function. Anything you can print, you can automatically save as a PDF. In other words, what prints out from Finale and what I turn into a PDF are exactly the same. But the Preview application for opening/viewing/printing PDFs doesn't have a tiling function, unfortunately.

[mark carlson]

In Page Setup, I chose letter size, landscape. And in printing it from Finale, I chose letter size paper, even though the score is for 11x17.

Just to be clear, Page Size in Document/Page format/score should be tabloid. Paper size in the print dialog should be Letter, Landscape.

Thanks! I did not have tabloid selected in Document/Page format, as I had that selected in Page Layout tool. It boggles my mind that those two things are not interconnected: why do you have to choose paper size in two different places?

In any case, I re-tried printing the first page with tiling, after making sure I had tabloid selected in both Document/Page format, and letter (landscape) in the page setup and print dialogue. And damn it, the same thing happened as I posted yesterday--which I'll attach again here.

I think I should probably give up on this. I don't understand why, but I just don't think tiling works in Finale.

[zuill]

I got tiling properly on Windows with direct print from Finale and Print to CutePDF. So, I am guessing it is uniquely a MAC issue. Windows works fine. I would report this to tech support and see what they say.

Zuill

[mark carlson]

I got tiling properly on Windows with direct print from Finale and Print to CutePDF. So, I am guessing it is uniquely a MAC issue. Windows works fine. I would report this to tech support and see what they say.

Zuill

OK Thanks!

[mark carlson]

I got tiling properly on Windows with direct print from Finale and Print to CutePDF. So, I am guessing it is uniquely a MAC issue. Windows works fine. I would report this to tech support and see what they say.

Zuill

PS How do I report things to tech support? I still remember the days when you could call them up and just tell them.

[zuill]

Try this link. It will ask you to log in and then you can submit a request.

https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/requests/new

Zuill