Finale Developer Roundtable

[BuonTempi]

There's a video of a 'roundtable' discussion by the Finale development team, talking about all things Finale, which may be of interest, if you have 37 minutes to spare.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otszphLwhjE

I haven't sat through it all myself, but apparently, they've discounted an iPad version.

[motet]

I briefly clicked through and happened to land on a spot where someone was saying, "Oh, those pesky bugs! We know they exist but I haven't been able to replicate them myself!" I know I have contributed several problem reports over the years with explicit instructions on how to replicate them, so certainly they haven't fixed everything that can easily be replicated.

[Bill Reed]

at 11:26 they talk about their process of handing bug reports

[zuill]

Is it with bug spray?

Zuill

[Bill Reed]

This is how I've always imagined the process...

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[miker]

Bill, that’s feature requests, and bug fixes!

And I’ll bet that office is air-conditioned, too.

[motet]

at 11:26 they talk about their process of handing bug reports

Listened to that. They say they prioritize based on how many users are affected and if it causes people to lose work. As far as I know, the situation with the OS deleting temp files that are still needed has not been addressed--I continue to see people say, "Help--I can't save my file!" If that's not serious, I don't know what is. And, while admittedly not knowing exactly what they're doing, I think it's easy to fix (keep the temp files open in Finale and the OS won't delete them).

[RimasG]

It seems that the Finale team cannot decide in which direction to develop the program. Sibelius and Dorico have long been qualitatively ahead, and the developers of the Finale have been doing something for many years without any concrete technological progress. Or users don’t really feel it. Only the numbers next to the program name change, and old bugs remain. Fin27 innovations are not fully prepared too. Sad because I’ve been a fan of Finale for 20 years.

[Anders Hedelin]

One day someone might inform us that Dorico can do everything that Finale can. That day I'll forget that I'm too old to switch to a new program.

[ebiggs1]

they've discounted an iPad version.

I wouldn't use one, even if the had it. No interest at all in a iPad version. I do use my laptop at rehearsals but very sparingly perhaps just for a quick edit or print out.

[ebiggs1]

Oh, those pesky bugs! We know they exist but I haven't been able to replicate them myself!"

In defence of MM on this one, all I can say is Finale does what I want and I don't really see any major work inhibiting "bugs". I don't have a Mac so the temp file thing is not an issue for me at least. I do concert band and small to large ensemble scores. Perfect Layout fixes all the stuff Finale should have so that took care of that.

The biggest bug it had that did affect me, its fixed now, was the disappearing print box. And, for some unknown reason every once in a while Finale will reopen it self in recovery mode. No reason to, it just does. It still does that!

I suspect the reason they don't see bugs that some of you do is, MM no longer has a team of common ordinary people beta testing new versions of the software. IMHO, bugs or new ideas are two fold. They don't have the technical knowledge how to do it or they don't have the money to.

[ebiggs1]

I just watched most of the video. My takeaway is, MM has a somewhat cavalier attitude towards Finale. It's not a joke to a lot of us!

[motet]

The temp file bug exists in Windows as well. It's more likely to happen the longer you leave Finale open.

Another bug I can think of off the top of my head is the one where if you have multiple measure number regions and uncheck "include in measure numbering" in places, then certain operations in which you choose a measure (e.g., changing a barline) apply it to the wrong bar. That has confused countless users and wasted hours of time. Yes, there is a work-around, but unless you're Zuill, you're unlike to find it.

There are many others, of course.

[RimasG]

About mistakes.
Scroll view and Speedy mode. Unless you specifically remove the frame when navigating with the mouse wheel, the contents of the frame usually travel along with the frame and stay where you left off. When working with large scores, this is sometimes hard to notice.
Another option. Articulation tool and Scroll view. When you navigate the mouse wheel, all handles "go crazy" and focus on the left edge of the display.
And this has been going on from one version of Fin to another for many years.

Once upon a time, it became possible to navigate with a mouse wheel. But it is very unstable. The image accelerates and cannot be stopped until it stops on its own. Until it was possible to use the "Scroll Wheel" app, this was never the case.
When writing scores, I always work in Play Finale through MIDI mode. It's so convenient for me. However, in high vertical scores, there are many problems with playback. In Tutti places, many notes are disappearing from the vertical. I'm using an external sound card and an ASIO, but the sound engine is not working satisfactorily.
And lots of another little things.

[ebiggs1]

I don't see any of that. Never have! One point the MM guys made was if they can't repeat the "bug" there is no way they can fix it. I suspect a lot of so-called bugs are computer specific. Not software specific. I am sure this makes true bugs lie in wait while MM chases other computer related issues.

This is why I say only two reasons MM doesn't fix long time bugs or any bug. They don't know how or they don't have the money to. IMHO, as always of course.

[RimasG]

I don't see any of that. Never have! One point the MM guys made was if they can't repeat the "bug" there is no way they can fix it. I suspect a lot of so-called bugs are computer specific. Not software specific. I am sure this makes true bugs lie in wait while MM chases other computer related issues.

During my 20-year at the PC and Finale, I replaced many PCs with various configurations, OS from WinXP (32bit) to Win10 (64bit). From Fin 2002 to Fin 27. The problems remained the same. However, I am often unfamiliar with the serious problems faced by other forum members. Where then is the secret?
Now for my PC configuration: Intel (R) Core (TM) i3-8100 CPU @ 3.60GHz 3.60 GHz; 8.00 GB RAM. External sound card PreSonus Audiobox USB 96. Keyboard Casio CDP-200R.

[ebiggs1]

It looks like we are both long time Finale users. I started with Finale before it had a year associated with its name.
Man, I am no computer guru so I am of little help to you. I can tell you all my PC's have been off the shelf standard nothing special computers. Usually a Dell but I had a couple Gateway and HP computers.

I can tell you in all that time I have never seen what you are experiencing and I doubt any of the other Windows users do either. If someone has perhaps they will see this thread and post a fix for you.

In the last Dell computer which I currently have, about four years old, I did look for a machine with a pretty decent video card in it. I also got 16 GB of RAM. I think both of these items help Finale but I also run Photoshop a lot and I know it helps it. The Dell has three 2TB hard drives in it. One drive, my Z drive, is used solely for Finale temp files and PS and LR swap files.

Microcenter, a computer store by me, has a new Dell I am considering buying that has a 512GB SSD HD and a 2TB hard drive with 16GB of Ram and a killer video card on sale.

I know not any help, sorry.

[ebiggs1]

Oh, BTW, I have a Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse. I also have a Roland midi controller the A49 model. Again, I have never seen what you are going through.

[RimasG]

It looks like we are both long time Finale users.

Thanks for the consolation. It has already come out that I never bought a PC in a store. I always have it the individual components were assembled by specialists. Sometimes I replaced some components and sometimes the whole machine. There was a time when I also had a powerful video card. (My kids played video games.) Now I only have built-in because I don’t edit video and don’t work with Photoshop. But in all cases, the problems were always the same. Both with 4Gb RAM and with 8Gb RAM. My friend, with whom we started working with the Finale at the same time, very quickly lost patience due to the details and moved on to Sibelius. In general, my country considers me stupid because I work with the Finale
I tried Sibelius many years ago as well, and did some work with him but i didn't like it. At the time, technologically, Sibelius was weaker than Finale (Sib2), but more stable. I bought Dorico, hoping for more stable audio. I didn’t have the time and patience to learn. And in general, time is always a problem. In addition to all the other work (teaching and playing in a theater orchestra), I do about 100 titles a year. True, not all are just symphonic scores. I now realize that after so many years, there is no point in changing the program. Work reflexes are easier to shape than cardinal changes. So, it remains to wait for the Fin developers to come up with something ingenious and the problems will gradually disappear. Unfortunately, I don’t have much time for that anymore Thank you. You have helped me a lot morally.

[ebiggs1]

... it remains to wait for the Fin developers to come up with something ingenious and the problems will gradually disappear.

Don't hold your breath! If all we have going for us are those guys in the pod cast, heaven help us. You have what you have and need to figure out what is going on. You issues are not the norm. Something is wrong on your machine I suspect. I sincerely hope you do find a solution.

I, too, have tried all the alternatives. At my age switching is not the first or even a logical choice.

BTW, Finale does like a big fast video card. Get the best one you reasonably can.

[ebiggs1]

The new Make Music is not the old Make Music.

[Bill Reed]

or the old Coda

[ebiggs1]

WOW! There is some one else that remembers that?

[RMK]

WOW! There is some one else that remembers that?

How about "Igor's view"?
Or leaving the program to work overnight to extract a set of parts?

[Jay Emmes]

The only way to remove the plethora of old bugs and inconsistencies on every platform is to write a new version from the ground up. And that is never going to happen — not with a company that isn't fully committed to the one application. Patch work will only last so long.