dead horse

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John Ruggero
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Post by John Ruggero » Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:27 pm

ebiggs1 wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:31 pm
The only hope is that Finale is bought by a serious, competent and financially capable player in this market.
The other hope for Finale is that Dorico continues down the path of exclusion rather than inclusion, as in, "Why would you want to do that?"
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Anders Hedelin
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Post by Anders Hedelin » Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:41 pm

John Ruggero wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:27 pm
ebiggs1 wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 5:31 pm
The only hope is that Finale is bought by a serious, competent and financially capable player in this market.
The other hope for Finale is that Dorico continues down the path of exclusion rather than inclusion, as in, "Why would you want to do that?"
Very good point, John. I remember when Finale was thought very difficult to learn. "Oh, you use Finale!" The reward was control. I haven't tried Dorico, just read the comments here and elsewhere, but it seems it isn't up to Finale in that respect.
I believe that from the beginning Finale's makers had this idea of control, over everything possible, as their guideline.
Has this become unfashionable?
In popular fiction control freaks are often the seriously bad guys, like serial killers and what not.
I must say, that when it comes to engraving, I'm a proud control freak. It doesn't include tidying my flat every fifteen minutes.
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dankreider
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Post by dankreider » Wed Oct 20, 2021 2:23 am

Anders Hedelin wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:41 pm
it seems [Dorico] isn't up to Finale in that respect (control).
Well, sort of. It’s true Dorico is much more semantic, and it’s a younger program, so there are things it can’t do yet, or limitations to what it understands. But that semantic structure pays huge dividends in workflow.

And on the other hand, there are literally 2000+ engraving options available to be changed, neatly organized, with pictures to demonstrate.

Want to increase the space between messa di voce hairpins, or the minimum gap between a fermata and a protruding element on the staff? You can do that.

When someone asks for a feature or the ability to change a setting, Daniel will inevitably ask their reason for wanting this change, and sometimes will ask for examples from published literature. It’s a responsive and successful strategy, though it’s understandably limiting to those who want to strike out on their own path.

And had been mentioned before, there are some things that Finale can do that Dorico simply can’t. Want cutaway scores? Dorico can’t do that in any way. Yet.

It’s easy for me to be sanguine about Dorico’s shortcomings because they mostly don’t affect me. They used to. Hymnals are a big part of what I do, and until version 3, Dorico didn’t have sufficient control of vertical baselines for lyrics. It was an absolute deal breaker. But then that feature was added, and voila.
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ebiggs1
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Post by ebiggs1 » Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:49 pm

When someone asks for a feature or the ability to change a setting, Daniel will inevitably ask their reason for wanting this change, and sometimes will ask for examples from published literature
Actually that is the only real problem with MM. Finale is better, probably the best notation software available. I certainly think so.
Dorico is so small so it most likely isn't a problem or time consuming to answer every query. In MM case Finale is huge and answering everything that comes in becomes a huge problem. So you don't answer any and make a silly livestream on FB.
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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:56 pm

I disagree. The real problem with MM is that they completely ignore users' issues, including on-going bugs, and insist on implementing "features" that were obviously thought up by some committee that never actually writes or engraves music.

MM don't have to answer personally every single comment. But at least monitoring their forum would be an excellent source of information to get a good grasp of what direction their programmers need to explore to make Finale better and keep it at the forefront.
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ebiggs1
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Post by ebiggs1 » Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:21 pm

I disagree.
Actually we both "agree". I totally agree with you. But I also believe what I posted, too. And, as I have said many times and not ironic in a dead horse thread, MM either doesn't know how to, or they don't have the money too. Or. perhaps they just don't see them main stream enough to make any real difference.

As far as adding the sharing feature, that was simple and unlikely cost any real money to do. Most of that was already there. They have done some improvements and added many scores to Smartmusic before. Adding a Export button in the File menu with a web address.
(It jacks your score up so badly, I don't see any serious person using it much.)

The smufl fonts may have been a big task. I don't really know how difficult that might be.
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Anders Hedelin
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Post by Anders Hedelin » Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:54 pm

ebiggs1 wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:21 pm
MM either doesn't know how to, or they don't have the money too.
I think we got that.
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miker
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Post by miker » Wed Oct 20, 2021 4:58 pm

Michel R E wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:56 pm
MM don't have to answer personally every single comment. But at least monitoring their forum would be an excellent source of information to get a good grasp of what direction their programmers need to explore to make Finale better and keep it at the forefront.
And part of the problem is that many of the high-level users have deserted the official forum for this one. I'm sure MM monitors their own forum, but they can legitimately say they pay little, if any, attention to this one.
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motet
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Post by motet » Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:06 pm

I really appreciate hearing about Michel's Dorico experiences. Perhaps a new thread for that topic? This one is pretty tedious.

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miker
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Post by miker » Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:15 pm

Agreed. Michel, would you be so kind as to start a new thread?
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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:35 pm

I don't even know what to post!
I wouldn't know where to start. I am a very new user of Dorico.

Any suggestion as to which forum category I would post in?
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
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XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
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Epeedad
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Post by Epeedad » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:20 pm

I've done it! :D

Chris

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RimasG
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Post by RimasG » Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:05 am

Judging by the amount of attention and posts shown to that "dead horse", the "riders" think it's still alive and will be riding it lovingly for a long time to come, despite the fact that it's a bit lame and potentially lagging behind in the race :D
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RimasG
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Post by RimasG » Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:30 am

Michel R E wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:35 pm
Any suggestion as to which forum category I would post in?
https://forums.steinberg.net/c/dorico/8
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ebiggs1
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Post by ebiggs1 » Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:32 pm

This one is pretty tedious.
Perhaps. But never think Sibelius and I even suspect even the vaulted Dorico has its own set of issues and problems. Don't think so just start following the Avid Sibelius forum.
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