Ties between enharmonically altered notes

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Anders Hedelin
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Post by Anders Hedelin » Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:26 pm

While ties between notes of the nominally same pitch present no problems:
Regular ties.PNG
Regular ties.PNG (11.1 KiB) Viewed 1964 times
the tying of a note to its enharmonically altered equivalent does (fx between E# and F). Mainly of of a graphical nature - it has not so much to do with whatever program you use, I think. This is Finale's default, which of course isn't of much use:
Default enharmonic ties.PNG
Default enharmonic ties.PNG (13.79 KiB) Viewed 1964 times
A little manual adjustment improves that but leaves an ugly gap between the tie and the E#:
Adjusted enharmonic ties 1.PNG
Adjusted enharmonic ties 1.PNG (14.06 KiB) Viewed 1964 times
(Next example in the next post.)
Last edited by Anders Hedelin on Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:38 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Post by Anders Hedelin » Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:27 pm

Another adjustment allows the tie to slant a little to avoid the gap:
Adjusted enharmonic ties 2.PNG
Adjusted enharmonic ties 2.PNG (13.14 KiB) Viewed 1963 times
The distinction between bold slurs and thin ties is a convention created by notation programs. It does not exist in handwriting. What about slanting ties - are they 'still ties'?
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michelp
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Post by michelp » Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:55 pm

The problem is that a tie between E# and F will play as 2 notes, not 1 (long).
There may be good reasons why switching to the enharmonic note makes sense, but if you want accurate playback, you may have to compromise and use the same note twice, with a tie.
Last edited by michelp on Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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motet
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Post by motet » Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:00 pm

I use a slur in this situation.

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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:46 pm

I' personally fond of the practice of using the same note (as in the example above, and E# tied to an E#),
but then placing a grace note-sized notehead (no stem) of the new enharmonic spelling (in this case an F natural) immediately after the second tied note.

I am posting an image of the effect, though in this case it's not a tied note. But it gives an idea of what the enharmonic "cautionary note" looks like.
Attachments
enharmonic_example.jpg
enharmonic_example.jpg (11.82 KiB) Viewed 1919 times
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motet
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Post by motet » Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:56 pm

If there's a key change involved, though, hanging on to the old pitch too long might not look good.

With E-sharp to F-natural, I'd put a cautionary on the F-natural, even if the key-signature change shows it. Players are not going to expect an enharmonic tie and would be tempted to play an F-sharp, I think.
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1000.png
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0999.png

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David Ward
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Post by David Ward » Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:29 pm

motet wrote:
Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:56 pm
If there's a key change involved, though, hanging on to the old pitch too long might not look good.
There is what seems to me to be a notationally slightly awkward example of this in the vocal score of Luonnotar by Sibelius. The key signature changes from F sharp minor to B flat minor, but the voice holds an F sharp across the double bar and key signature change on the word kuo. It's clear what's meant, but somehow it doesn't look quite ‘right’ (to me anyway). In the full score the sharp on the tied note is repeated in brackets after the double bar, though this may be primarily because there is a new system in the FS. In the VS we have an F natural in the cancellation of the previous key signature, but no cautionary accidental to clarify that F sharp is still being held. However, since the immediately following voice note is a clearly specified F natural, there can be no doubt; but it's a little odd (I think) that there's no cautionary sharp in the VS.
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Jay Emmes
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Post by Jay Emmes » Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:20 am

Which is most important: the 'correctness' of the hanging note in the new key or the fact that the note is tied? The tied note might look odd in the new key, but it is an 'odd note' in that key to start with, so why be concerned about its oddness?
I would advocate for keeping the original pitch so at least the tie is obvious. Just my two cents.
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Anders Hedelin
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Post by Anders Hedelin » Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:23 pm

I didn't have time to scour my scores for an example of tied, enharmonically altered chords - even though I know they are fairly common in the repertoir - so I cooked something up myself from a rather standard Romantic recipe:
Enharmonically tied chords.PNG
Here the tied-over chord after the double barline would be rather unintelligible keeping the spelling as an Ab. In that case, adding cautionary accidentals wouldn't help much either.

In this situation the flat ties aren't especially disturbing, are they?
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