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John Ruggero
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Finale Version: Finale 25.5
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Post by John Ruggero » Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:50 pm

Thanks again, Wess. That is invaluable help for adding graphics outside of Finale: just add the graphics in another layer. This would work for elements like newly added slurs etc. But if one modifies existing elements within a Finale file, such as ledger lines, wouldn't that have to be redone each time one changes anything on that page? But maybe the whole system involved could be created as a separate file and overlaid as a PDF within Finale?
2020 M1 Mac mini (OS 12.6) Finale 25.5, Dorico, Affinity Publisher, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard Maestro
www.cantilenapress.com

"The better the composer, the better the notation."


Ian Stewart
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Post by Ian Stewart » Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:12 pm

Thank you for describing your working methods Wess, a really good way to enable scores to be corrected. I have tried it with Inkscape but found it impossible to line up the replacement file when it is imported - whether PDF or SVG format. I don't know if this is a particular Inkscape problem; I have been wondering whether to try Affinity Designer as I really like Affinity Photo.
The scores with lots of graphics I have created recently are only two or three pages, so as yet it has not been a problem but I would like to find a more efficient way of doing this.
Finale 26.3/Dorico 3.5
Patterson Plug-Ins/TGTools
Garritan COMB/Personal Orchestra 5
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wessmusic
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Finale Version: Finale 27.4
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Post by wessmusic » Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:40 pm

Ian Stewart wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:12 pm
I have been wondering whether to try Affinity Designer as I really like Affinity Photo.
Hi Ian,
I have not attempted to test Inkscape how precise it is, but due to your question few minutes ago I tested on my retired iMac (2013) Affinity Designer 1.3.5 — although this version is old, the placement (copy/paste) works exactly 1:1 — as precise as in Illustrator.
However, "paste in place" works as usually "Command+V" (instead of "Command+F" in Illustrator)
_________________
John Ruggero wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:50 pm
This would work for elements like newly added slurs etc. But if one modifies existing elements within a Finale file, such as ledger lines, wouldn't that have to be redone each time one changes anything on that page? But maybe the whole system involved could be created as a separate file and overlaid as a PDF within Finale?
Hi John,

I would like to believe, I can help you finding best solution for shortening the ledger lines (almost) "at once" in Illustrator.
The primitive, however approved method is adding white rectangle masks between overcrowded notes (width = 3 EVPUs, hight = 2.5-3.5 spaces).

But let's see what the alternative is, using Illustrator.

Initially you have slightly to change (scale) the notes themselves in Finale.
Here I prepared a sample, that probably roughly replicates your scenario:
Image

In order to modify only specified ledger lines (Mezzo) in Illustrator, you have to distinguish the desired ones from the rest of all lines whatever may be(i.e. form those notes with good looking ledger lines, staff lines, stems etc — see Soprano).
We need this because later we'll apply stroke-width filter to select only Mezzo ledger lines.

There are two methods — either to scale each note separately (in Finale) at 99% or 101% as in above sample, or to select the entire fragment and apply "Change Notes To...%".

Image

Both options are found in Utility menu.
No doubt, 1% is absolutely nothing as a "payed" price for this compromise.
_______________

Next — prepare PDF, convert text to out line and open the file/page in Illustrator.

As you can see form next two illustration, there is negligible difference on stroke (ledger line) width:
Soprano: 0.318 mm
Mezzo: 0.321
Speaking in details: this is about 1-(or at most 1.5) printers dot when printing on 1200 dpi.

Image

Image
_______________

In order to select the same kind of ledger lines, you need first to select only one of those (in Mezzo):
Image

Here is the result:
Image
_______________

In order to transform each ledger line separately, go to "Transform" menu and choose:
Image

Set the proper HORIZONTAL scaling only...
...and as Pushkin writes:
"Ага! Voila *** этот день".
(Ah! Voila, (here is) the Queen of the day.)

Image

Here is how they appear:
Image

Until they remain selected, the next step is... to CUT them.
Image

and to paste (the altered ledger lines) onto layer 2:
https://i.ibb.co/syJxxDW/9.png

Here are they "SOLO":
Image
___________________

When as a next stage in your production you need to correct the score, you have to:
A. apply filter selection
B. delete the Finale's generated (original) ledger lines
C. open the previously save AI (2 layers file!)
D. Copy/Paste already modified ledger lines (from Layer 2) to the newly revised file (in Illustrator: "Command+F").

However, if you change the allotment in Finale, you must complete the whole procedure from the very beginning.
In order to minimize the manual work in Illustrator, you can record (and perform for similar editing) a batch process (here it's called "Action").

Best,
Wess
CUSTOM FONTS for FINALE and SIBELIUS
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f0udkrvb8xvh2zj/AAD_8mVlRzzr5mjZKI7BR7Kza?dl=0
________
Finale user since 1994

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John Ruggero
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Post by John Ruggero » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:53 pm

OMG, Wess. That is brilliant! If I did a lot of that, I would get a subscription to Illustrator. Is it possible in any other program?
2020 M1 Mac mini (OS 12.6) Finale 25.5, Dorico, Affinity Publisher, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard Maestro
www.cantilenapress.com

"The better the composer, the better the notation."

Ian Stewart
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Post by Ian Stewart » Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:12 am

wessmusic wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:40 pm
Ian Stewart wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:12 pm
I have been wondering whether to try Affinity Designer as I really like Affinity Photo.
Hi Ian,
I have not attempted to test Inkscape how precise it is, but due to your question few minutes ago I tested on my retired iMac (2013) Affinity Designer 1.3.5 — although this version is old, the placement (copy/paste) works exactly 1:1 — as precise as in Illustrator.
However, "paste in place" works as usually "Command+V" (instead of "Command+F" in Illustrator)
Many thanks again Wess. Yesterday I tried it in Inkscape and couldn't get it to work. Today I watched a video on lining up pages in Inkscape and tried again, this time everything lined up perfectly. I also downloaded a trial of Affinity Designer which on first impressions looks really good so will experiment some more.
Finale 26.3/Dorico 3.5
Patterson Plug-Ins/TGTools
Garritan COMB/Personal Orchestra 5
MacOS Mojave (10.14.6)
www.ianstewart.xyz

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wessmusic
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Finale Version: Finale 27.4
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Post by wessmusic » Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:42 am

John Ruggero wrote:
Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:53 pm
...If I did a lot of that, I would get a subscription to Illustrator. Is it possible in any other program?
Dear John,
yes, it is — check the latest version of Affinity Designer (1.10.1).

I downloaded its free trial and installed it.
With this version you can do the same changes, previously found in Illustrator.

Here are the steps:
01. Prepare your PDF converting all text to outlines;
02. Open the desire page in Affinity designer and activate the icon "Transform Objects Separately" (By default it is on the top palette).

Image

Image

03. Select a ledger line (the principles described in my previous post are the same);
04. From menu "Select" click "Select Same" and then "Stroke Weight";
Image

Here it is:
Image

(I changed the stroke color to light grey — for fun... and better visibility.)

05. Go to transform section (bottom right corner) and in "W" alter the parameter in order to find your best settings.
Image

Image

Note, that before editing "W" parameter, you must select the center in the alignment section (the one with 9 small squires — check the biggest one as shown in both last illustrations).
After editing the ledger lines, it's advisable to create a new layer and cut/past the selected objects on it for your next correction or revision.
_____________________

I checked that Affinity Designer recently costs about US $55 (and ca. €60 inc.VAT in EU).
No subscriptions whatsoever!

best,
Wess
CUSTOM FONTS for FINALE and SIBELIUS
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f0udkrvb8xvh2zj/AAD_8mVlRzzr5mjZKI7BR7Kza?dl=0
________
Finale user since 1994

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John Ruggero
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Post by John Ruggero » Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:05 am

What a wonderful tutorial, Wess. Thank you so much! I have Affinity Publisher but not Designer, which I will immediately purchase. Affinity Publisher was having some problems with importing PDFs at first. I assume that Designer is OK with PDF imports from Finale.
2020 M1 Mac mini (OS 12.6) Finale 25.5, Dorico, Affinity Publisher, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard Maestro
www.cantilenapress.com

"The better the composer, the better the notation."

BuonTempi
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Finale Version: Finale 27
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Post by BuonTempi » Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:15 pm

With regard to PDF imports in Finale being blurry and bitmapped: this from David Cusick, in an email from 2020:
I have done some considerable research on this and the biggest problem that I have found with this is that Finale is taking a vector image and displaying this correctly in the program but, on export, it is rasterizing this. Which it should absolutely not do and certainly a problem. This started happening somewhere around 2011-2012 releases, but I do not know why.

The best work flow I can suggest in this situation, regardless if you are using EPS or PDF vector images, is to export and then use a third-party program to add the graphics. This is certainly not ideal at all, but until the issue is resolved at the code level, there is not a way around having Finale not rasterize the image.
The effect can be subtle: but if you make a PDF of your final document, you can zoom in and see the blurriness. It's one of those things like 'stepped' hairpins which, once you start noticing them, really make me go Grrr.

One caution about Affinity Designer: it can display some font glyphs, particularly ligatures, incorrectly. It's best to 'outline' the PDF before importing (which takes the font data and turns it into non-font vector data).

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John Ruggero
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Post by John Ruggero » Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:54 pm

I see the jaggies at high magnification on the monitor, BuonTempi. I was hoping to keep this project all in Finale. I may need to export everything into InDesign (or Affinity Publisher) as I usually do. The footnote examples are at 65% and the jaggies are barely visible even on very close inspection in the actual print, but...

Sorry, Anders. I should have investigated your report more closely.
Last edited by John Ruggero on Sun Oct 17, 2021 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2020 M1 Mac mini (OS 12.6) Finale 25.5, Dorico, Affinity Publisher, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard Maestro
www.cantilenapress.com

"The better the composer, the better the notation."

Anders Hedelin
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Post by Anders Hedelin » Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:02 pm

John Ruggero wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:54 pm
I see the jaggies at high magnification on the monitor, BuonTempi. I was hoping to keep this project all in Finale. I may need to import everything into InDesign (or Affinity Publisher) as I usually do. The footnote examples are at 65% and the jaggies are barely visible even on very close inspection in the actual print, but...

Sorry, Anders. I should have investigated your report more closely.
No problem, John. I knew I wasn't making this up, but since no one seemed to have noticed the problem a few posts earlier, I thought it best to drop the subject.
Funnily enough, Cusick recommends the same method my publisher applied, and which I'll stick to in the future. I wouldn't think there's any need to try other third party pdf programs. (I already have Adobe Acrobat.)
Finale 26.3, 27.4.1
Windows 10

BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:17 pm

Anders Hedelin wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:02 pm
I knew I wasn't making this up, but since no one seemed to have noticed the problem a few posts earlier, I thought it best to drop the subject.
I've been posting about this problem (and reporting it to MM) since 2012!

Anders Hedelin
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Post by Anders Hedelin » Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:26 am

BuonTempi wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:17 pm
Anders Hedelin wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:02 pm
I knew I wasn't making this up, but since no one seemed to have noticed the problem a few posts earlier, I thought it best to drop the subject.
I've been posting about this problem (and reporting it to MM) since 2012!
The upside of this is that you not only have noticed the problem, but acted on it.
The downside is that we maybe shouldn't hold our breath waiting for MM to do something about it.
Finale 26.3, 27.4.1
Windows 10

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