double dotted triplet

General notation questions, including advanced notation, formatting, etc., go here.

Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker

freull
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:32 am
Finale Version: 27.0.0.710
Operating System: Windows

Post by freull » Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:36 am

I'm notating a complex contemporary piece, and need to create
a "double-dotted triplet", i.e. three double dotted 16th notes with
the total duration of two double dotted 16th notes (= one double
dotted 8th note). The Tuplet Tool gives the possibility
to create (single) dotted tuplets of this kind, but not double
dotted. Is there a way to do this?


Ian Stewart
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:46 pm
Finale Version: 26.3
Operating System: Mac

Post by Ian Stewart » Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:07 pm

In musical notation a double dotted note is 1 3/4 (1.75) the length of the original note - if you use sixteenth notes you need twenty one 64th notes in the space of fourteen 64th notes. I can see no other way of doing it but others may. If you don't want play back I'm sure you could to it in a graphics programme easily and notate double dotted sixteenth note triplets.

(Post substantially edited because of confusing information).
Last edited by Ian Stewart on Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Finale 26.3/Dorico 3.5
Patterson Plug-Ins/TGTools
Garritan COMB/Personal Orchestra 5
MacOS Mojave (10.14.6)
www.ianstewart.xyz

User avatar
Peter Thomsen
Posts: 6603
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by Peter Thomsen » Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:13 pm

freull wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:36 am
I'm notating a complex contemporary piece, and need to create
a "double-dotted triplet", i.e. three double dotted 16th notes with
the total duration of two double dotted 16th notes (= one double
dotted 8th note). The Tuplet Tool gives the possibility
to create (single) dotted tuplets of this kind, but not double
dotted. Is there a way to do this?
If I understand you correctly, this is a layout issue, not a playback issue - right?

It is clear how the notes should display, but how should the tuplet display?

How should the tuplet number display?
- Nothing?
- Number?
- X:Y? (fraction)
- fraction with {number + note}?

How should the tuplet bracket display?

It might help if you could attach a scanning of the tuplet in the manuscript.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

freull
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:32 am
Finale Version: 27.0.0.710
Operating System: Windows

Post by freull » Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:42 am

It's actually a playback issue. I only want to generate a rhythmically exact
audio file for studying purposes. I attach a picture of the tuplet.

For the moment, I solved the problem with a work around, i.e.
by removing the tuplet and instead introducing a local 50% tempo increase.
However, it would of course be nicer if one could recreate the little monster
as it is written, because then it is possible to listen with the correct
metronome track as well. Thanks for helping out.
Attachments
Ferneyhough tuplet.jpg

freull
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:32 am
Finale Version: 27.0.0.710
Operating System: Windows

Post by freull » Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:20 am

Ian, creating a 21:14 64th note tuplet actually seems to do the trick in terms of playback.
Many thanks!

Ian Stewart
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:46 pm
Finale Version: 26.3
Operating System: Mac

Post by Ian Stewart » Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:23 am

Just for the sake of completeness, if you enter three semiquavers as triplets and then make them double dotted it looks neat and clear - but of course a warning appears that there are too many beats in the bar.
That doesn't help your problem though as it is palyback you are concerned with.
Finale 26.3/Dorico 3.5
Patterson Plug-Ins/TGTools
Garritan COMB/Personal Orchestra 5
MacOS Mojave (10.14.6)
www.ianstewart.xyz

User avatar
Peter Thomsen
Posts: 6603
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
Finale Version: Finale v27.4
Operating System: Mac

Post by Peter Thomsen » Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:06 pm

It can be done, via a nested tuplet.

Unfortunately the Tuplet Tool can not display the small “duration parenthesis” below the tuplet.
Instead, add the small “duration parenthesis” with the Expression Tool.

See the attached files:
Finale document
and
.jpg graphic

Peter Thomsen
Attachments
FerneyhoughTuplet.musx
(14.9 KiB) Downloaded 50 times
FerneyhoughTuplet.jpg
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

Post Reply