strings divisi vs. double/triple/etc. stops

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bj nick
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Post by bj nick » Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:47 pm

I tried to research this question, but found nothing more recent than at least eight years ago.....I read through things, but still not clear to me, and also I'm not sure if guidance from a long time ago is still valid in Finale. I'm writing for small chamber ensemble w/violin, cello and bass included. If I want the violin to play double or triple stops, will HP and Finale in general, play it back as ONE violinist or cellist, or as multiple instruments?
Last edited by bj nick on Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:20 pm

it all depends on what library you are using and what type of sample or instrument.

for example, with NotePerformer using the sectional violins, NP will automatically divide the strings into how ever many voices there are.
In theory, of there were 8 different voices on the staff, NP3 wold have you hear 8 solo violinists.
honestly, I don't hear much of a difference when it's simply multistops or simple divisis.

if you are using a solo sample there's no reason for it to sound as anything other than a solo.
so if you write a 3-note chord, it will sound like three strings playing different notes.

If you are just using the Garritan instruments that come with Finale by default, they are very basic. Use a solo string instrument and you will get the sounds of three synthy strings on a triple-stop, of two synthy strings on a double-stop, and single string on any single notes.

If you have a real live violinist, playing two strings, if they're really good it WILL sound like two violinists each playing their part.

honestly, I don't really know what you're asking. The nature of a double, triple or quadruple stop is that multiple strings are playing. It can't help but sound like multiple players each with their own string.

The sound of each singular string will not be doubled/tripled/quadrupled, however.

the choice of using a divisi or a multi-stop only really enters into the equation when writing for a section of strings.
a sectional divisi will have a different sound than a sectional double-stop.

Remember also that you cannot write lengthy passages in multi-stops unless this is virtuoso solo writing. And even then, look at a violin concerto and you'll see how little multi-stopping is actually in the score.
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.

bj nick
Posts: 681
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:10 am
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Post by bj nick » Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:51 pm

Hey, come on! I've heard Hillary Hahn playing the Caprice #24 as I'm viewing the violin music, tons of double/triple/quadruple stops, and it's obviously easy stuff anybody can play!

Actually.....I'm just learning about string writing in general, it's all new to me, and this is exactly the stuff I need to hear.

I actually just discussed this with my orchestration teacher; multistops, etc., and I told him confidently that I had checked some passages/chords on Paganini "so I know they work." He just laughed....said look, that is NOT your benchmark for writing basic stops that the players will just read down easily. He knows I play poker, so he said, is your benchmark for "standard play" the guy who just won the world series of poker?

Anyway, thanks as always, Michael! As simple as it may be to you, I didn't really think about the obvious point that a (good) violinist playing multiple strings WILL sound like more than one. I wasn't sure what the difference would be.....still a string virgin.....but I'm learning. Strings are fantastic, by the way. I missed all of that mainly playing jazz/casuals/salsa/Brazilian/commercial/etc.

btw I am using NP3 (at yours and others' urging) with the "solo" violin patch. I like it.
Finale v. 26, Windows 10, NP3, Garritan Instruments for Finale

bj nick
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Post by bj nick » Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:52 pm

Oh, and yes: the parts I'm writing will be fairly simple-- quarter and half-notes at a slower tempo. Nothing crazy.
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Michel R E
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Post by Michel R E » Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:44 pm

bj nick wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:52 pm
Oh, and yes: the parts I'm writing will be fairly simple-- quarter and half-notes at a slower tempo. Nothing crazy.
let me give you a piece of advice on writing continuous double-stops:

remember that it's nearly impossible for a solo player to make a long sequence of double-stops to sound legato/sustained. you'll get little slides, and will probably sound a bit messy.

and think of this as a "rule" for writing multi-string passages for strings:

a 5th requires a finger to stop two strings at once at the exact same spot. (remember that violin through cello, the strings are a 5th apart). playing an open 5th is delicate and can be very problematic for intonation (depending on the skill level of your violinist).

it's not easy (notice I didn't say "impossible", just not easy, nor comfortable) to pass from an interval smaller than a 5th to one larger than a 5th. (there are exceptions, mostly involving the use of open strings).

you can write consecutive 6ths and 7ths (and any interval involving an open string), or you can write consecutive 3rds and 4ths (again, or anything with an open string).

the larger intervals are the most comfortable ones as they are the more natural hand position.
the smaller intervals are a bit more uncomfortable because it requires the fingers to arch OVER a string that is vibrating at the time.

(I tried to include some images of normal and reversed hand positions for multistops, but the forum keeps telling me the files are too large.)
User of Finale since version 3.0 on Windows.
Now using a mix of Finale 2012, Finale 25, and 26.1
GPO, Garritan Solo Stradivari violin, Gofriller Solo Cello.
XSamples Chamber Ensemble.
Absolute convert to NotePerformer3.

bj nick
Posts: 681
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:10 am
Finale Version: v26, NP3
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Post by bj nick » Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:57 pm

Really valuable tips, Michael. This is the stuff I need to learn. I'm printing out your tips/guidelines to refer to. See, intuitively my thoughts were, "smaller intervals should be easier/more comfortable since it's presumably close together." Shows how little I know. Studying the written parts of famous violin/cello pieces shows right away my thinking was nuts; most chords I see are widely spaced.
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