Finale blog: 27.1

[motet]

What is centered beaming?

[BuonTempi]

What is centered beaming?

This

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There is a menu item to automatically create this beaming style Dorico, but because of the stem directions, it only works on notes that are either side of the centre line.

However, it is possible to create centred beams on other positions with a bit of manual fiddling. I'd be surprised if this wasn't improved at some point.

You'll forgive me if I point out the irony of Finale users considering a workaround to be an obstacle.

[John Ruggero]

You'll forgive me if I point out the irony of Finale users considering a workaround to be an obstacle.

I was responding to Michel's request for a list of things that Finale could do that Dorico couldn't.

How much of an obstacle a work-around is depends on how often it is needed and varies from user to user. In my case, entering alternate fingering in Dorico using the text tool would have a huge cost in time and results, since it would be needed constantly. I use workarounds in Finale relatively infrequently.

[BuonTempi]

Alternatives, substitutions, and multiple fingerings are all possible.

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EDIT: I've found your example of what you want to be able to do, John, from another discussion. https://notat.io/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=386&start=50

That's 'quite advanced', I'll admit.

[John Ruggero]

That example was designed to test Dorico's capabilities to the limit, since who knows when I might need to do something like that. Here is a more typical example. Both examples are quite easy to do in Finale with keyboard shortcuts:

Hmm, why does the example show up so small in the post?

[ebiggs1]

Michel R E, re-read post from Wed Nov 17, 2021 8:04 pm.

... the fact that we all use Finale isn't proof of anything.

It certainly is. Actions speak stronger than words.

[David Ward]

… … …Hmm, why does the example show up so small in the post?

If you click on it it shows in a larger size (here anyway).

[motet]

Does Dorico let you flip stems at will, or does it not let you override the center-line rule?

[BuonTempi]

Does Dorico let you flip stems at will, or does it not let you override the center-line rule?

Generally, yes, but obviously once you've beamed them together, then different rules apply.

[motet]

Strange that they limited centered beaming to certain pitches!

[John Ruggero]

A piano fingering cornucopia may be found at:

https://s9.imslp.org/files/imglnks/usim ... mplete.pdf

I wouldn't want to be the engraver attempting this in Dorico.

[John Ruggero]

Strange that they limited centered beaming to certain pitches!

This appears to have been a miscalculation. But it could be related to a certain "parental" attitude that bothers me. Along with empowering Dorico features that I would love to access, like greater control over slur shape and ledger line width, Dorico also sometimes seems to go out of its way to limit the user to "what is generally done", or what fits within a vision of the way the user is supposed to use the program. I found this very confining.

[motet]

Yeah.

There's a "Music Engraving Tips" group on Facebook run by a martinet with a similar attitude. Of course it's much worse when such an attitude is built into a typesetting program.

[dankreider]

Dorico also sometimes seems to go out of its way to limit the user to "what is generally done", or what fits within a vision of the way the user is supposed to use the program. I found this very confining.

Well, I don’t think it’s fair to say the program “goes out of its way” to limit users. It’s true that, if Finale is one side of the coin (no rules, feel free to make it look like garbage if you want; we’re happy to oblige), Dorico is the other. It started from that philosophical standpoint and has been consistently adding greater user control as it matures. So I don’t think one could say that there’s a distinct aversion to user control, just that it’s a development process.

Take for example the case of inputting three quarter notes in 6/8 time, which I think has come up here before. It’s true that Dorico will display these as quarter, tied eighths, quarter. But one needs only to invoke force duration to write it however they please. In my mind this encapsulates the distinctives of Dorico that are potential strengths. Change the meter in that bar, and the beaming will change for you. Want to do it all yourself? You can do that.

[motet]

feel free to make it look like garbage

I think that's the attitude that John is talking about. Sure, some people could make a mess, but sometimes it's in fact more legible--rather than garbage--to break a rule. Your 6/8 example is good--if you enter three quarters, why in the world should it change it?

I once posted the Janacek excerpt below to the above-mentioned Facebook group with some question or other, and they were shocked at the notation--one person proclaimed it "the worst I've ever seen!" To me it's quite legible and even elegant.

Perhaps it's a bit like Apple software, which in my opinion (and I say this as an iPhone user) is dumbed-down with few opportunities to customize things so that it will be simple and people won't hang themselves. The did make their fortune in part by being user-friendly, but they've sometimes taken it a bit too far.

[dankreider]

When I mentioned “garbage,” I wasn’t meaning the 3-quarters-in-6/8 example. Rather, I meant the sort of amateurish mistakes or egregious collisions that make a score look just plain bad. Finale excels at those.

Of course in Dorico you can quite easily write 3 quarters in 6/8, as I said before. But there’s a distinct advantage in treating meter semantically. For example, change an extended 6/8 section to 5/4, and watch everything update. That’s not a rare occurrence for me. It’s probably inevitable that a user might occasionally feel patronized in the process, but I don’t see how that could possibly be the intent. (Or at that point, who cares? Your bars are all updated… that’s the point!)

It’s easy for me to be sanguine about Dorico’s restrictions, since they don’t affect me as they do John. I find Dorico consistently does what I have told it to do, and does it with aplomb. Just the yesterday I found the LV ties in a piece too short for my taste, so I changed the global setting for their length. Violà. That’s the sort of thing I’m talking about. It just works.

Perhaps it would be better to deal in specific examples. Can you think of a particular quirk or unusual need that is a regular part of your notation? I’ll tell you if Dorico can do it, and how much fuss it requires (or doesn’t, hopefully).

Or is this isn’t the place for so much Dorico talk, I can give it a rest.