Rich black instead of pure black when printing to PDF?

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sPretzel
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Post by sPretzel » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:05 pm

Is anyone else experiencing staff lines being printed as rich black instead of pure black (K=100% only) when Printing to PDF (not exporting to PDF via the Graphics tool)?
It looks like what is described here:
https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ ... rely-black

The last post says it is a known bug at makemusic and they are working on it. This was five years ago!

This is for F27.1.


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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:22 pm

sPretzel,

You are talking about Windows Finale - right? (your forum Profile says Windows)

There is a problem in Mac Finale.
If you - in Mac Finale - use the Graphics Tool to export as PDF, you will get a true Black-and-White PDF.

But if you - in Mac Finale - instead “print” to a PDF file, you will not get true Black, but rather a mixture of colours.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

sPretzel
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Post by sPretzel » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:32 pm

I was referring to Windows. But either really.
I have this problem in F27.1 in Windows. Other elements like the clef for instance appear in pure black. But staff lines are in rich black. I am unable to see if that can be defined via settings in Finale.

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wessmusic
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Post by wessmusic » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:04 pm

Peter Thomsen wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:22 pm
But if you - in Mac Finale - instead “print” to a PDF file, you will not get true Black, but rather a mixture of colours.
Hi Peter,

I'd like to share my experience for overcoming the aforementioned issue:
When you go to the Print window, under Paper Size there are several Finale Print Options.
Image
Click there and select Color Matching.
Image
The window suddenly changes its size and you get two options — Color Sync and In Printer.
Image
Select Color Sync and click on Profile pop-up. Automatic stays by default.
However, you'll have to select Other Profiles...:
Image
This will bring you to Select ColorSync Profile window. From there go to Black and White.
Image
Ok... Ok... many times.
Now you can Save as PDF (or Open in Preview).
You can check the result in your graphical application, that everything is pure Black and White.
Here is a sample from Illustrator:

Image

As you see, I selected intentionally CMYK, because this profile is absolutely merciless to any kind of print issues.

Cheers,
Wess
CUSTOM FONTS for FINALE and SIBELIUS
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f0udkrvb8xvh2zj/AAD_8mVlRzzr5mjZKI7BR7Kza?dl=0
________
Finale user since 1994

BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:15 pm

On Mac, it depends upon the characteristics of the selected printer when you make the PDF. A Monochrome printer will output 100%K, obviously.

Colour printers will vary in the colorspace that they define.

But yes, there have been issues with this in Finale since 2012, at least.

sPretzel
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Post by sPretzel » Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:21 am

I have this problem in F27.1 in Windows. Other elements like the clef for instance appear in pure black. But staff lines are in rich black. I am unable to see if that can be defined via settings in Finale.
By defining via settings in Finale, I meant if it is possible to set colour characteristics of page elements like staff lines, symbols, and other elements directly within Finale so that they print (not display) to PDF accordingly.

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David Ward
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Post by David Ward » Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:48 am

I just followed Wess's sequence using my home inkjet printer dialogue, but ‘other profiles’ seemed to offer me everything except black and white.

I get the same with CUPS-PDF (virtual printer) selected as the printer, and even when selecting a couple of currently inaccessible printers (this is with my MacBook), no black and white offered for any of them.

I may be as well to continue to export PDFs via the Graphics Tool rather than via the Finale print dialogue.
Finale 25.5 & 26.3
Mac 10.13.6 & 10.14.6

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wessmusic
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Post by wessmusic » Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:45 pm

David Ward wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:48 am
I just followed Wess's sequence using my home inkjet printer dialogue, but ‘other profiles’ seemed to offer me everything except black and white.
Hi David,

using B&W profile is a bit tricky, but not difficult at all.
Here is a short guid how to get this profile, namely Black and White.

Go to System Preferences — Printers.
Click on Add printer and then from the top select IP.
In the field Address: write: 192.168.0.0 (this settings always work)
From Protocol: select: Line printer Daemon — LPD
Under Name: you can specify your own name, but I input Virtual PS Printer
In Use: field select Generic PostScript Printer
Image
By clicking Add button the next window appears.
Image
Press Continue and you see this message:
Image
OK brings you back to Printers & Scanners:
Image
So, from this moment and on, when you use "print command" (Command + P) in Finale, instead of your Jet Printer you'll have to select the newly installed Virtual PS Printer.
(Print — Printer: — Virtual PS Printer)
as shown here:
Image
Now all aforementioned settings (in my previous post) are active inc. Black & White profile.

best,
Wess
CUSTOM FONTS for FINALE and SIBELIUS
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/f0udkrvb8xvh2zj/AAD_8mVlRzzr5mjZKI7BR7Kza?dl=0
________
Finale user since 1994

sPretzel
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Post by sPretzel » Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:47 pm

Can colour settings for page elements be defined within Finale, not through the operating system or the printer? I am referring to colour settings for print, not for display.

BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Fri Nov 26, 2021 4:42 pm

You can set Finale to print those items that it normally colours just for display: e.g. Layers, expressions in Green, etc. There's also Note Pitches that can be assigned to specific colours. However, AFAIK, you can't arbitrarily define the colour of a selected object, nor globally set colour definitions outside of the OS printing environment.

And even if you could, defining an object as 'Black' doesn't define the colourspace, e.g. Black in RGB; Black in CMYK (which could be split across all 4 inks); or Black as 100% mono.

I only mention it for comparison, but 'other applications' do manage to export solid Black notation in 'Colour' PDFs.

sPretzel
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Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:38 pm
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Post by sPretzel » Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:02 pm

And by the way, if you Export to PDF in Windows (from Graphics tool), do the elements on the page appear in pure black (only K=100%) or a combination of C, M, Y, and K? Try with the Finale Default Document. Thanks.

sPretzel
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:38 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2007
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Post by sPretzel » Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:50 pm

For those using Windows with Finale 27.0 or 27.1, can you please report back on the following tasks:
Open a new Finale Default Document.

-Export to PDF (from Graphics tool).
In the PDF file, is anything on the page in a different colour than pure black K=100? Do you see any item with C/M/Y not equal to 0?
What is the PDF producer?

-Print to PDF (from File Print).
In the PDF file, is anything on the page in a different colour than pure black K=100? Do you see any item with C/M/Y not equal to 0?
What is the PDF producer?

Thanks.

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