Stuck with unwanted Bold Italic Text Blocks

[mark carlson]

This is a weird one. No matter what I choose for the Text Blocks, they end up Bold and Italic. I have it set in Document Options to be Times New Roman plain, but even though that is what is selected, it shows up there as Times New Roman Bold Italic.

There is *nothing* on the attached page that I want in italic, and I don't want everything to be bold. But no matter how hard I try, I cannot change it from the way it is.

Can anyone see what is wrong here, and can you help me fix it?

Thanks,

Mark

Finale 26
Mac OS 12.1

[Peter Thomsen]

Mark,

Unfortunately I am unable to reproduce your problem.
As you can see in the attached Finale document, I was able to change all text blocks to plain.
For me, it worked right away.
No need to try multiple times.

Goodman PQ p1 - Solved.musx

(133.16 KiB) Downloaded 84 times

… no matter how hard I try, I cannot change it from the way it is ….

Please specify your steps.
Then, perhaps, we can tell you what you are doing wrong.

[motet]

When I open it, everything is already plain. A problem with the fonts in your O.S.?

[mark carlson]

Mark,

Unfortunately I am unable to reproduce your problem.
As you can see in the attached Finale document, I was able to change all text blocks to plain.
For me, it worked right away.
No need to try multiple times.


Goodman PQ p1 - Solved.musx


… no matter how hard I try, I cannot change it from the way it is ….

Please specify your steps.
Then, perhaps, we can tell you what you are doing wrong.

Well, darn!

OK Steps:

1. In Text Tool, double click where I want the title and enter "Piano Quartet". It already shows up as Bold Italic. (Screen shot 1)

2. Select that text in that block and do the usual easy steps to change the style, ie, Command-I to toggle between italic and plain. I just get a popping noise. I try the same in Text Menu-->Style. "Plain" is already chosen, but it remains Bold Italic. (Screen shot 2)

Screen shot 3 shows that in Document Options, Fonts, I have Times New Roman Regular 12 selected.

Screen shot 4 shows that in Document Options it says Times New Roman Bold Italic 12 plain, in spite of how I have it set
Screen shot 5 shows that Times New Roman is working just fine in Word.

See next for 4&5

[mark carlson]

Screen shot 4 shows that in Document Options it says Times New Roman Bold Italic 12 plain, in spite of how I have it set
Screen shot 5 shows that Times New Roman is working just fine in Word.

See next for 4&5

[mark carlson]

When I open it, everything is already plain. A problem with the fonts in your O.S.?

I'm able to use Times New Roman normally in Word, so I assume that means the font in my OS is fine. But maybe that's not what you meant.

Here it is in Word, looking just as I want it to:

[motet]

Times New Roman Bold Italic seems to be a separate font independent of what's set in the Typeface column (note is says Times New Roman Bold Italic plain). Can you scroll down and find the different Times New Roman font?

[mark carlson]

Times New Roman Bold Italic seems to be a separate font independent of what's set in the Typeface column (note is says Times New Roman Bold Italic plain). Can you scroll down and find the different Times New Roman font?

I don't find anything called a Typeface column, only Font. But in the Font column, there is no separate Times New Roman Bold Italic. See screenshot 6

[mark carlson]

Times New Roman Bold Italic seems to be a separate font independent of what's set in the Typeface column (note is says Times New Roman Bold Italic plain). Can you scroll down and find the different Times New Roman font?

Here's a clue: The font Times (not Times New Roman) is missing from Finale for me (That's never been the case before). When I tried adding a text block in a different file, in which all of the Text blocks were already Times New Roman, I had the same trouble I am reporting here. Is it possible that Times New Roman is somehow dependent on the presence of Times?

[motet]

You're right about there being no such font. I suspect it's a remnant from your file's former life.
.

.
But when I click on Set Font and scroll down, select Times New Roman,
.

b.png (5.09 KiB) Viewed 5833 times

.
and click OK, the change sticks:
.

c.png (8.09 KiB) Viewed 5833 times

.
Of course, I'm on Windows and you're on a Mac.

[mark carlson]

You're right about there being no such font. I suspect it's a remnant from your file's former life.
.
a.png
.
But when I click on Set Font and scroll down, select Times New Roman,
.
b.png
.
and click OK, the change sticks:
.
c.png
.
Of course, I'm on Windows and you're on a Mac.

It looks different on the Mac version, but I have gone through the same steps, to no avail.

[wessmusic]

Here's a clue: The font Times (not Times New Roman) is missing from Finale for me (That's never been the case before).
When I tried adding a text block in a different file, in which all of the Text blocks were already Times New Roman, I had the same trouble I am reporting here.
Is it possible that Times New Roman is somehow dependent on the presence of Times?

I do not think so, because trying to replicate your case, I deliberately removed "Times" and emptied the thrash.
Then I opened Finale 26.3 and replaced Times New Roman Bold Italic with Regular. Everything looks as it should be.


BTW, what is the OS version on your Mac (Catalina, Big Sur or Monterey)?

Clearing the font cache and restarting could help, too.
You can try also "Check Document Fonts Against System Fonts" (from Document—> Data Check—>Font Utilities...).

[mark carlson]

Here's a clue: The font Times (not Times New Roman) is missing from Finale for me (That's never been the case before).
When I tried adding a text block in a different file, in which all of the Text blocks were already Times New Roman, I had the same trouble I am reporting here.
Is it possible that Times New Roman is somehow dependent on the presence of Times?

I do not think so, because trying to replicate your case, I deliberately removed "Times" and emptied the thrash.
Then I opened Finale 26.3 and replaced Times New Roman Bold Italic with Regular. Everything looks as it should be.


BTW, what is the OS version on your Mac (Catalina, Big Sur or Monterey)?

Clearing the font cache and restarting could help, too.
You can try also "Check Document Fonts Against System Fonts" (from Document—> Data Check—>Font Utilities...).

Thanks! My OS is Monterey.

Clearing the font cache is a Mac thing, not a Finale thing, right?

[mark carlson]

Here's a clue: The font Times (not Times New Roman) is missing from Finale for me (That's never been the case before).
When I tried adding a text block in a different file, in which all of the Text blocks were already Times New Roman, I had the same trouble I am reporting here.
Is it possible that Times New Roman is somehow dependent on the presence of Times?

I do not think so, because trying to replicate your case, I deliberately removed "Times" and emptied the thrash.
Then I opened Finale 26.3 and replaced Times New Roman Bold Italic with Regular. Everything looks as it should be.


BTW, what is the OS version on your Mac (Catalina, Big Sur or Monterey)?

Clearing the font cache and restarting could help, too.
You can try also "Check Document Fonts Against System Fonts" (from Document—> Data Check—>Font Utilities...).

Maybe I don't know how to clear the font cache, because I followed directions I found with a Google search on how to do it—I deleted Times New Roman, restarted holding Shift, restarted again in my normal account—and Times New Roman is still behaving as it did before.

It's obviously a problem with Times New Roman with Finale, because the font behave normally in other apps.

Mark

OS 12.1 (Monterey)

[wessmusic]

Hi Mark,

the easiest method for cleaning font cashe is by using ONYX (follow the link).
Check the menus and will fine there it is.
https://www.titanium-software.fr/en/onyx.html

Another suspicious I have: do you use third party font manager?
If you do, then you should remove it. This is known issue related to Monterey.
Then you need to delete Times New Roman, restart and manually install it back.
Some people report this could be a solution.

Another option is:
boot in SaveMode (when booting, hold down the Shift key to enter Safe Mode). This clears font cashe, too.
Monterey is very sensitive to font issues.

[mark carlson]

Hi Mark,

the easiest method for cleaning font cashe is by using ONYX (follow the link).
Check the menus and will fine there it is.
https://www.titanium-software.fr/en/onyx.html

Another suspicious I have: do you use third party font manager?
If you do, then you should remove it. This is known issue related to Monterey.
Then you need to delete Times New Roman, restart and manually install it back.
Some people report this could be a solution.

Another option is:
boot in SaveMode (when booting, hold down the Shift key to enter Safe Mode). This clears font cashe, too.
Monterey is very sensitive to font issues.

This problem is most definitely some kind of issue between Finale and Times New Roman, because

1. Times New Roman works fine in other applications;
2. When I try it in other Finale files, Times New Roman ends up in Italic Bold, so it's not specific just to this file;
3. Other fonts, like Palatino, work just fine.

I've tried the OnyX thing. I don't use a third-party manager (I just have fontbook). And I tried booting in Safe Mode. I also tried deleting Times New Roman from my fontbook. Nothing has worked.

I am fearing that this is an unsolvable problem. Arrrggghhh!

Does see any other possibilities for how to fix this?

Thank you!

Mark

[motet]

As I said before, it says "Times New Roman Italic Bold 12 plain", which says to me it's some remnant in you old file. Since others have been able to change it to "Times New Roman", are you sure you're doing it right?

Click on Set Font next to Text Block
.

.
Don't just try to change what's already there
.

.
Instead, scroll down, way down in the list under Font: to find Times New Roman alphabetically.
.

.
Pick Times New Roman, and be sure to click OK.

[mark carlson]

As I said before, it says "Times New Roman Italic Bold 12 plain", which says to me it's some remnant in you old file. Since others have been able to change it to "Times New Roman", are you sure you're doing it right?

Click on Set Font next to Text Block
.
Image2.png
.
Don't just try to change what's already there
.
Image3.png
.
Instead, scroll down, way down in the list under Font: to find Times New Roman alphabetically.
.
Image1.png
.
Pick Times New Roman, and be sure to click OK.

Thanks. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way on the Mac version, in which you click on the Text menu, then Font—which opens up a list on the side of all the fonts—then scroll down to whatever font you want. This is what I have selected, and nothing in it includes bold and italic being chosen. I don't know what I could do differently.

[motet]

Shall I or Wess just do it for you?

[mark carlson]

Shall I or Wess just do it for you?

I've followed every step you or Wess has suggested—not including the things that are different on the Mac then on Windows. I wish I understood what you think I am not doing.

In any case, I just found this, which perhaps is answer:

https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ ... -Monterey-

[wessmusic]

I updated your file directly with Finale 27.1 installed on my external SSD with OS Monterey.
Please check if it works now.

best,
Wess

[mark carlson]

I updated your file directly with Finale 27.1 installed on my external SSD with OS Monterey.
Please check if it works now.

best,
Wess

Thank you! Yes, that works, and it also follows what I posted yesterday from MakeMusic--that it's a known issue with Monterey and Finale: when I open your file, the font you used shows as "Times (missing), italic", which MakeMusic says is actually "Times New Roman, regular". (Does it show that way in your file? Maybe it's not an issue in Finale 27, like it is in 26). They say they are working on the problem with Apple, so I hope it will be resolved before too long.

I'm relieved, also, to know it isn't me—that it's a known problem between Monterey and Finale.

If you missed the link to that article, it's in the last comment I made yesterday. I can't easily access it while typing here, so let me know if you want to read it and can't find it, and I'll re-post it.

Mark

[tonytony]

Hi there.

Has anybody found a solution to this problem in Finale 26? I don't particularly want to upgrade to 27 yet for a number of reasons but the inability to use the Times font is exasperating. The workarounds (using italic rather than regular etc) are usable, albeit tedious, but I can't get bold to work on its own at all (only bold italic).

Tony

[mark carlson]

I'm sorry to say that I have not found a good solution. Perhaps 27 solved that problem, but I didn't find any other reason to start using it.

But I am relieved to know that I'm not the only one who had this problem! As I discovered and wrote about earlier in this thread, this is a known issue between Finale and Monterey that was supposedly being worked on. They clearly have not fixed it yet.

[tonytony]

Thanks for replying. It's absolutely infuriating. I sort-of feel it must be a Finale issue (rather than Monterey) because the Times fonts work perfectly well in other applications. I'm now trying to find a font which is similar to Times so that I can achieve some kind of consistency.