Finale 27 ludicrously slow to start

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TonyEastwood
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:37 am
Finale Version: 27.0.0708
Operating System: Windows

Post by TonyEastwood » Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:17 pm

My Finale 27.1 on windows 10 takes 60-90+ seconds to start (I joke not) but once started runs normally (this is very fast machine).

During the start up delay 'task manager' shows nothing very busy. The only significant load is 'Windows Audio Device Graph Isolation" at 3%. (But I don't have any complex audio stuff on this computer. )

Is this wait some kind of license check? Any other ideas?
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motet
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Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
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Post by motet » Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:34 pm

It might be Windows Security scanning it every time you start it. Try this: find "Virus and threat protection settings" / Manage settings / Exclusions / Add or remove exclusions and add the Finale folder in C:\Program Files. It seems like the chance of malware infecting Finale is very small.

Patric
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Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:29 am
Finale Version: Finale 26 & 27
Operating System: Mac

Post by Patric » Wed Feb 02, 2022 8:17 am

Hi.

I have started to experience the same problem. It takes between 90-120 seconds for Finale 26 to startup on my MacBok Pro with os 10.14.6 (Mojave). The slow startup started just a few days ago for no obvious reason (no new software installed, no changes to virus settings...). After Finale has started and my score is open everything works as normal. It is just the startup process that all of a sudden has become... ludicrously slow.

Any hints on why this might be and how to solve this?
Composer and President at Make My Day Music - www.makemydaymusic.com
Running Finale 26 on a MacBook Pro M1 and OS 13

TonyEastwood
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:37 am
Finale Version: 27.0.0708
Operating System: Windows

Post by TonyEastwood » Wed Feb 02, 2022 10:33 am

Patric

your experience is my experience exactly – No changes made, yet suddenly Finale takes >90 seconds to start.

I wonder if it is connected with license checking? ( I'd recently licensed the "second copy" of Finale on another machine. )

Hopefully if this problem becomes more frequent MM will provide a workaround.

Tony
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motet
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Finale Version: 2014.5,2011,2005,27
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Post by motet » Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:45 pm

Since Finale works even if you're not connected to the Internet, I'm not sure it's communicating with MakeMusic when you start up. Have you tried the Windows Security fix I mentioned above? (No idea about the Mac problem.)

TonyEastwood
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Finale Version: 27.0.0708
Operating System: Windows

Post by TonyEastwood » Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:15 am

Unfortunately I didn't have "Virus and threat protection settings." I don't think it is related to virus protection as every other program starts normally.

Is there a log file one can view?

To be honest: Finale is such as marvelous program, and does pretty much everything I want so well, that the inconvenience of having to always leave it running is something I've already learned to live with :)
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TonyEastwood
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Finale Version: 27.0.0708
Operating System: Windows

Post by TonyEastwood » Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:02 am

But then again . . . - maybe one day it won't start up at all :(
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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:57 pm

TonyEastwood wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:15 am
Unfortunately I didn't have "Virus and threat protection settings." I don't think it is related to virus protection as every other program starts normally.
When I went through this with Windows 10, every other program started normally, also, and it absolutely fixed it. I couldn't tell you why that is. My guess is that Windows remembers what it has scanned before and so doesn't scan every time, but something non-Kosher Finale is doing is causing Windows to think there has been a change.

There apparently are virus and threat protection settings in Windows 11. Here's an article on how to add an exclusion. If you try it, let us know what happens.

https://websiteforstudents.com/how-to-a ... indows-11/

TonyEastwood
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Finale Version: 27.0.0708
Operating System: Windows

Post by TonyEastwood » Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:26 pm

Thanks for the reply and link . Using that link I can get to 'Virus and threat protection settings" but unfortunately this particular computer has corporate-managed ultra-security so I can't exclude anything. :(

So I have to live with this. Provided Finale can start up within 2 minutes I can cope; its only if it starts taking 1/2 hour or never starting that I have an issue. (But it surprises me greatly that a 90 + second 'scanning' process creates neither disk activity not CPU load, what is it doing?)
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miker
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Post by miker » Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:36 pm

Two minutes isn’t so bad. I can remember when starting a computer let you brew a pot of coffee before you got to work.
Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society

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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:05 pm

TonyEastwood wrote:
Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:26 pm
But it surprises me greatly that a 90 + second 'scanning' process creates neither disk activity not CPU load, what is it doing?
Good question. It may in fact be something else. Can you disconnect from the internet and then try it? Finale should work offline, so if the delay is due to Finale querying some broken MakeMusic server (which wouldn't surprise me), perhaps it would recognize its offline status and not try. Just a stab in the dark. In any case, I would complain to MakeMusic. I suppose it could also be your corporate ultra-security refusing to talk to the MakeMusic server.

TonyEastwood
Posts: 60
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Finale Version: 27.0.0708
Operating System: Windows

Post by TonyEastwood » Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:26 pm

RE: Can you disconnect from the internet and then try it? Finale should work offline

Hmm - offline it says:
AuthMessage.jpg
However, when on line: "help" shows me that I have an authorized copy (which I do have :) , it shows me my serial number). So every time I run it it goes to a MM server and checks my license. So now we know why it starts slowly.

So is this a new MM policy? How would I find out?

many thanks

Tony
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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Feb 03, 2022 10:13 pm

I can run my 2014.5 copy offline, but maybe someone here with V27 can try it, too. Either it's a new policy, the license isn't recorded properly, or it's a screw-up on their part. I suggest you file a support ticket. I would start with "I can't run offline" rather than complain about the slow start-up time, since they might be quick to dismiss the latter.

Even if they've changed their policy, it should only take a few seconds to check.

wp4032
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Finale Version: 2014.5, 25, 26, 27
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Post by wp4032 » Sat Feb 05, 2022 12:39 am

27.1, 26.3 and 2014.5 all start roughly the same (1 or 2 seconds) with network connected or not.

Windows 10 on a Surface 7 Pro.

TonyEastwood
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Finale Version: 27.0.0708
Operating System: Windows

Post by TonyEastwood » Sat Feb 05, 2022 7:32 am

MM support were able to help me.

My slow start problem is related to variable MAC addresses on my laptop.
I'm just grateful after it has started it runs so quickly.
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TonyEastwood
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:37 am
Finale Version: 27.0.0708
Operating System: Windows

Post by TonyEastwood » Thu Feb 10, 2022 8:33 pm

Actually MM support came back helped me even more (I'm most impressed) .

They examined the !PlogueEngine_x64.log" from the directory ..MakeMusic\Finale 27\PlogueEngine and were able to see an error as Finale connects to the ASIO driver.

(My ASIO system must be faulty. :( )

In the file MakeMusic\Finale 27\FINMIDI.ini it is then possible to turn off attempted use of ASIO and yes: this fixes it completely.

Now it starts is 1-2 seconds. WOW
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Patric
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Finale Version: Finale 26 & 27
Operating System: Mac

Post by Patric » Thu Feb 10, 2022 9:09 pm

Sounds great! Any idea on how to do it on a Mac? Or perhaps I should send MM support a message.
Composer and President at Make My Day Music - www.makemydaymusic.com
Running Finale 26 on a MacBook Pro M1 and OS 13

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Perotinus
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Finale Version: Finale 27.3
Operating System: Windows

Post by Perotinus » Thu Feb 10, 2022 9:22 pm

Great!
So what values did you change in the .ini file in Windows?
Perotinus

Finale 27.3
Windows 10 Enterprise

TonyEastwood
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Finale Version: 27.0.0708
Operating System: Windows

Post by TonyEastwood » Thu Feb 10, 2022 9:31 pm

I'd ask MM. I'm told that window's audio is weird (providing many alternative systems, some of which don't work all the time . . . ) and not like MAC audio which (I'm told) has one always working system.

These is no guarantee that your fault is the same as mine. If you still want to try find equivalent of AppData\Roaming\MakeMusic\Finale 27\FINMIDI.INI - make a copy and look at the end of the file. You may be able to tweak it :D - or maybe your installation will no longer work . .. :(
img.jpg
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motet
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Post by motet » Thu Feb 10, 2022 9:35 pm

On my system ASIO has less latency than non-ASIO, so that's what I use. Perhaps your system doesn't have ASIO-capable audio. It's ridiculous that it takes so long to time out. I wonder if they ever tested in on a non-ASIO system.

TonyEastwood
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Finale Version: 27.0.0708
Operating System: Windows

Post by TonyEastwood » Fri Feb 11, 2022 9:16 am

RE: ever tested in on a non-ASIO system.

I think the ASIO on my machine is intermittent and time out is in that.
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Patric
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Finale Version: Finale 26 & 27
Operating System: Mac

Post by Patric » Fri Feb 11, 2022 11:02 pm

So, for all Mac users, in my case (using a Mac) the problem is that I have too many plug-ins that Finale scans through each time it starts. Removing the plug-ins speeds the start up to normal. Problem solved in the sense I now know the reason for the slow startup. I just have to live with it (bc I'm not gonna get rid of my expensive plugs). I'll brew a pot of coffee before I go to work instead, like in the old days.
Composer and President at Make My Day Music - www.makemydaymusic.com
Running Finale 26 on a MacBook Pro M1 and OS 13

geneyvette
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Finale Version: Finale 27
Operating System: Windows

Post by geneyvette » Thu Mar 24, 2022 11:33 pm

Long loading after installing the CFX Grand Piano.

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motet
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Post by motet » Fri Mar 25, 2022 12:39 am

With the speed of today's processors, that's surprising. I wonder if it's doing more than "loading" them (whatever that means), like checking some online database or somesuch. Just loading them into memory shouldn't take more than a second or so.

You might see if you can disable whatever ant-virus scanning the Mac is doing.

danielleoh
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Finale Version: 27
Operating System: Windows

Post by danielleoh » Mon Mar 28, 2022 8:07 pm

Wow, this made all the difference! Thank you so much.
I'd recently found that Finale 27 takes forever to load on both my machines, a Windows 10 and a Windows 11 laptop. These have hella specs, and shouldn't have this problem. Changing that one entry in the one file fixed it though; went from a couple minutes to a couple seconds to start up.

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