Bass Clef or Tenor Clef for Cello and Bassoon?

[Tomas E]

In this example the Cello as well as the Bassoon is notated with Bass Clef.
https://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory26.htm

In an older Swedish music theory book they say Tenor Clef is used for these instruments.

I opened the Study of Orchestration (Samuel Adler) and found an example on page 596 (Shoenberg: Five Pieces for Orchestra). He uses them both, so I guess it depends on which register is being used?

[Peter Thomsen]

… He uses them both, so I guess it depends on which register is being used?

Yes.

[motet]

It's mainly to avoid ledger lines. You should avoid switching back and forth too often. I've found that players can more easily read ledger lines above in bass clef than ledger lines below in tenor clef.

[Tomas E]

It's mainly to avoid ledger lines. You should avoid switching back and forth too often. I've found that players can more easily read ledger lines above in bass clef than ledger lines below in tenor clef.

Thanks, that's good to know!

I guess it's more common to alternate between them in solo contexts.

[David Ward]

It's mainly to avoid ledger lines. You should avoid switching back and forth too often. I've found that players can more easily read ledger lines above in bass clef than ledger lines below in tenor clef.

Thanks, that's good to know!

I guess it's more common to alternate between them in solo contexts.

I learnt the cello up to Grade VIII and for a time played the trombone professionally (albeit mostly bass trombone). I agree, don't chop and change willy-nilly, and I also agree that too many ledger lines below the tenor clef are a little awkward, although for any competent classical player, at least two should be OK if it's for just one or two notes (ie to avoid a momentary clef change).

For bassoons and cellos these clefs are regularly both used in the same piece from the eighteenth century to today.

Older trombone parts have tended to be in one clef throughout, often the tenor for the tenor trombone and often enough also the alto even for the tenor trombone. Hence studies such as the Blasevich Studies in Clefs which chop and change all over the place between all three without any particular logic. If you put those studies on the stand and play through half a dozen whenever the mood takes, you'll have no bother reading in whichever of these three clefs a real piece is notated. (But don't use the alto clef for a modern trombone part unless it's to be played on the alto trombone.) Modern classical tenor trombone parts move between tenor and bass clefs as appropriate.

Long answer…

[Tomas E]

I learnt the cello up to Grade VIII and for a time played the trombone professionally (albeit mostly bass trombone). I agree, don't chop and change willy-nilly, and I also agree that too many ledger lines below the tenor clef are a little awkward, although for any competent classical player, at least two should be OK if it's for just one or two notes (ie to avoid a momentary clef change).

For bassoons and cellos these clefs are regularly both used in the same piece from the eighteenth century to today.

Older trombone parts have tended to be in one clef throughout, often the tenor for the tenor trombone and often enough also the alto even for the tenor trombone. Hence studies such as the Blasevich Studies in Clefs which chop and change all over the place between all three without any particular logic. If you put those studies on the stand and play through half a dozen whenever the mood takes, you'll have no bother reading in whichever of these three clefs a real piece is notated. (But don't use the alto clef for a modern trombone part unless it's to be played on the alto trombone.) Modern classical tenor trombone parts move between tenor and bass clefs as appropriate.

Long answer…

[N Grossingink]

In an older Swedish music theory book they say Tenor Clef is used for these instruments.

I hope the book has a nice binding so it will look good on your bookshelf. That's probably where it should stay.

[motet]

Well, they didn't say its always used for those instruments.

There's also treble clef in some old cello music that I think was to be played an octave lower (or higher?) than written.

[Tomas E]

In an older Swedish music theory book they say Tenor Clef is used for these instruments.

I hope the book has a nice binding so it will look good on your bookshelf.

Yes, indeed it has!

Well, I guess this book isn't intended primarily for composers but more as a beginners guide. We used it during my early education. I've had a lot of use for it in that regard.

[michelp]

Treble clef is also used for cello for very high passages.

[Tomas E]

Treble clef is also used for cello for very high passages.

Seems as if one should be able to figure out which clef to use in any instrument by just counting the ledger lines. Unless of course - as mentioned before - it results in too much shifting.

[ebiggs1]

I've found that players can more easily read ledger lines above in bass clef than ledger lines below in tenor clef.

Yes indeed. For myself I don't care what clef I play my trombone in. I play second in the orchestra and bass trombone in the jazz and concert bands. I have seen orchestra music where the clef changes mid measure. If you are going to be an orchestra player you better know all clefs. I play 2nd in a British Brass Band which is treble clef!

I really doubt a good cello player has any problem with clefs. I don't, until recently, write orchestra music but I have always gone by the rule to keep music as easy to read and understandable as possible. I don't care what the "book" says!

[motet]

Changing mid-measure is neither unusual nor a problem. Switching back and forth too often is, though.

[ebiggs1]

It was simply an example of switching clefs and knowing them. Bottom line remains the composure should make the music as readable and understandable as possible. No matter what the "book" says. IMHO, of course.