Automatic Update Layout issue

[DonABF]

In the Finale Manual it says:

When Automatic Update Layout is not selected, Finale will still, on occasion, update the layout. For instance, if you adjust the position of a staff or add staves, Finale will update the layout.

So do I understand correctly that there is no way to get Finale to completely quit updating layout? (I have every "automatic" setting off in Edit>Preferences.)

Why do I ask? I have several split measures (phrases grouped like a hymn with part of a measure on the next system). When I click on a measure using Speedy Entry, e.g., it doesn't update spacing or layout upon exiting which is what I would expect. Yay. However, if I change the size of a system to squeeze another system on a page, all of my split measures are unsplit (unsplitted? ).

Yes, I know that's what the manual said, but I wouldn't have thought a split measure would be a victim of that odd behavior. I can update layout manually, so why can't it leave the layout alone... you know.... like you'd think it would if you UN-checked something called "Automatic Update Layout."

Any way around this? THANKS!

[Peter Thomsen]

… I have several split measures (phrases grouped like a hymn with part of a measure on the next system). When I click on a measure using Speedy Entry, e.g., it doesn't update spacing or layout upon exiting which is what I would expect. Yay. However, if I change the size of a system to squeeze another system on a page, all of my split measures are unsplit …

With what method did you split the measures?

Did you use the plug-in Split Measure?

[DonABF]

Measure tool>Allow Horizontal Splits>etc.
I use a lot of Jari's plugins but have never tried that one. (I don't often spilt measures)

UPDATE: I used the Split Measure plugin and then fiddled with the layout and voila, split measures remain in place.

THANK YOU!

[Peter Thomsen]

Then I recommend that you try the plug-in.

There have been reports that the feature {Horizontal Split Points} is buggy.

[Perotinus]

A query:
Would certain choices under "reflow measures" under preferences have any effect on this issue?

[motet]

If you mean measures split across systems become unsplit, lock the systems involved and that won't happen.

There's a misunderstanding about "update layout." As I understand it, Update Layout means "make the display reflect reality." Turning off Automatic Update Layout harkens back to the days when displays were slow and people chose to update manually once in a while rather than suffer the slowness. Now, it makes no sense, and really should be removed. As you say, it's updated anyway at times, so what's the use of turning it off?

Rather, you are suffering from either a) Automatic Music Spacing, or b) Document Options/Multimeasure Rests/Update Automatically.

[DonABF]

With what method did you split the measures?

At first I tried "Measure Attributes>Allow horizontal split points>OK" Then highlight the second part of the measure, then "ctrl+down arrow" to move it to the next system. Motet, the systems were locked and the "2nd half" of each measure went back up to its original system the minute I moved a system the tiniest bit in Page Layout.

I then used Plugins>Measures>Split measure and things stayed put.

Would certain choices under "reflow measures" under preferences have any effect on this issue?

Good thought, but I tried that. Didn't work.

Motet, re:

There's a misunderstanding about "update layout." As I understand it, Update Layout means "make the display reflect reality." Turning off Automatic Update Layout harkens back to the days when displays were slow and people chose to update manually once in a while rather than suffer the slowness. Now, it makes no sense, and really should be removed. As you say, it's updated anyway at times, so what's the use of turning it off?

I often turn off automatic update to great effect. I'm a tweaker. I write something, I perform it, then I often change some things. Let's say I made some manual adjustments to a few notes in a measure, but now I want to change one note in that measure. I like to use speedy entry, but if I have Auto-update toggled on, once I exit out of speedy entry for that measure, all my manual adjustments are gone. By toggling off auto-update I can change the note and everything stays put.

Thanks all for your help!

[Anders Hedelin]

I often turn off automatic update to great effect. I'm a tweaker. I write something, I perform it, then I often change some things. Let's say I made some manual adjustments to a few notes in a measure, but now I want to change one note in that measure. I like to use speedy entry, but if I have Auto-update toggled on, once I exit out of speedy entry for that measure, all my manual adjustments are gone. By toggling off auto-update I can change the note and everything stays put.

This sounds very much like you have Automatic Music Spacing on, not Automatic Update Layout. It would have exactly the undesired effect you are describing. My advice is: turn it off. As motet has frequently pointed out: don't turn off Automatic Update Layout.

[motet]

Indeed, I suspect it's Automatic Music Spacing that's respacing your music when you exit the measure with Speedy, so try turning that off. There is a setting in Document Options/Music Spacing having to do with dealing with manual adjustments when music is respaced, but I've never quite understood them (I believe there was a recent thread on this very issue) so I postpone manual adjustments until the very end.

As you quoted in the manual, the layout is updated anyway in certain situations, regardless of the setting; I recall someone saying it's updated when printing and/or when saving the file (I forget which) so I think you're fighting a losing battle.

Perhaps "Automatic Update Display" would be a better name, but MakeMusic would do everybody a favor by removing the ability to turn it off altogether. It's the subject of much confusion and myth,

[DonABF]

I see your point about Spacing vs Layout regarding the automatic spacing example. My Bad. I do know the difference but I conflated the two since I had both turned off.

At any rate, to be sure we're singing from the same hymnal, I've attached a screen shot of my settings. With these settings, if you split a measure using the measure tool>allow horizontal split points>split the measure and move the 2nd part down a system (which seems like the main reason one would use this) the 2nd half of the measure will go back up to its original system if you go to Page Layout and simply click anywhere in the document (with ALL staves locked). That seems like a bug to me. I can see no good reason for this, but I'm ready to be edified.

[motet]

It may be a bug. As someone suggested above, use the Split Measure plug-in instead. It actually makes two measures, hiding time signatures, etc., so you won't have that problem.

[DonABF]

Thanks, that's what I did and it solved my problem. I noted that worked in an update above, but I should have made a separate post in hindsight. It was easy to miss. I appreciate the help!!