What is going on with Times and TNR in Finale?

[John Ruggero]

In Finale 27 in OS 12, Times font is listed as "missing" and then the various styles of Times, Times New Roman and Times Vertical have slipped over one in the Finale Text Tool so that what is supposed to be italic appears as regular, bold appears as italic etc. with Times Vertical appearing for Times New Roman Bold italic. Is this a known issue?

This does not seem to affect previous tempo and other indications, just anything new.

Times is not present in my FontBook and Times New Roman reported appearing twice and needing resolution. MS Word TNR seems normal in MS Word.

[John Ruggero]

Here is an example for TNR Regular. in the Shape Designer:

[David Ward]

I'm unable to answer your question; but as I'm hoping to up-date everything, Mac hardware, OS *and* Finale before too long, I'll be interested to see what others may have to say about this.

[John Ruggero]

So would I. If only to hear that I am the only one with the problem.

[BuonTempi]

I see the same behaviour, so it might be a bug. Worth reporting to MM.

Times, TNR, Trebuchet MS and Verdana seem to be affected.

[miker]

As do I. I’be just ignored it, though, since it really doesn’t seem to matter.

[John Ruggero]

Thanks for checking on the other fonts you mentioned, Ben. I don't use those so I didn't know. I hope you are right, Mike. I am concerned that it might matter later, if and when they correct this. I will report it.

[John Ruggero]

The solution from MakeMusic is to install the missing Times font. The following source was suggested and it worked:
https://www.freebestfonts.com/timr45w-f ... e_vignette

[BuonTempi]

Ah. The problem is that MacOS seems to be 'hiding' some of the fonts that are bundled with it -- even though they are technically enabled. Most apps can't use these fonts. I've no idea why.

Times seems to have joined the ranks of these fonts.

However, MM's support is woeful. A missing font shouldn't cause problems with the other fonts that are installed; and recommending a sketchy free font download site is poor.

[David Ward]

Ah. The problem is that MacOS seems to be 'hiding' some of the fonts that are bundled with it -- even though they are technically enabled. Most apps can't use these fonts. I've no idea why.

Times seems to have joined the ranks of these fonts.  … … …

I never use Times New Roman intentionally, but Times is my standard font for most things. Does this mean than if (when) I up-date the OS I will have general bother with Times?

[BuonTempi]

"By default", yes.

Apple has gradually added a number of fonts to the list of "installed, but hidden". This includes "Courier" (though Courier New is available); Athelas, Charter, Iowan Old Style, New York, and others.

Hiding Courier has apparently vexed users of some Scriptwriting software, as swapping in Courier New causes page reflow.

All the fonts are .ttc "TrueType Collections", in which all the styles are bundled into one file. If you have some font editing software, or a utility to convert fonts from one format to another, then converting this single file to individual .ttf TrueType fonts for each style, and putting these into /Library/Fonts or the user font folder, will fix the issue.

Just copying the .ttc file from the System to the font folders mentioned above won't work - the name is protected.

It's possible you might have TTF versions from earlier OSes. If all this is too much, I dare say you could find some kind soul who would furnish you with the converted formats.

As said, I've no idea why Apple is doing this. I've filed it as a "bug" for several years.

Here's MM's support page about the issue, incidentally.

https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ ... -Monterey-

"This incorrect ordering may also cause several fonts after Times to be affected as well and may cause some confusion on what font is being used."

[John Ruggero]

and recommending a sketchy free font download site is poor.

Apparently finding the Times font is not easy. I see that particular site recommended for solving this problem other places on the web.

[John Ruggero]

Something I forgot to mention. When I first had the problem, I went to FontBook and an announcement came up that I had two copies of Times New Roman installed and did I want an automatic fix. After I allowed an automatic fix, the FontBook entry looked like this:

Fontbook.png (24.07 KiB) Viewed 5743 times

but Times was still shown as missing. After I installed the recommended Times font it appeared as shown: Times and under it Roman, for some reason. The font is called Times Roman in the box to the right in FontBook illustrating the font (not shown here.)

Is it possible that the duplicate Times New Roman shown as "off" is actually the missing Times font?

[BuonTempi]

I suspect you've just got a duplicate copy of TNR somewhere. Font Book will show you the filepath to each file, either in the Info tab, or right clicking and "Show in Finder".

[BuonTempi]

According to this Apple Support document:

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT212587

These fonts are only available in documents that already use the font, or in apps that request the font by name. Some are older fonts that were included in earlier versions of macOS or Apple apps.

That suggests that Finale files that use Times should still be able to do so; and doesn't explain why the font selection has gone 'off by one' after Times in Finale's dialogs, and no other.

[BuonTempi]

A quick test: I created a Finale .mus file in Finale 2009 running on El Capitan, with some text blocks using Times, Athelas, Courier and Marion.

When loaded into Finale 27 on Mojave, all of the fonts displayed correctly; but the font menu still described these fonts as 'missing'; and all the font styles were 'off by one' from Athelas onwards.

Compare to Pages.app, where a similar document, made on an earlier version running on El Capitan, showed the text in the correct fonts and had no problems with the font selection dialogs.

[karlkaminski]

im having the same issue (noticed back in Aug 23) My Times is 'missing' and New Times Roman is displaying OTHER fonts and styles???

On left is within Finale 27... On right is on my Mac Sonoma (everything displays properly)
top is Times
then New Times Roman (Displays improper Fonts and ignore style)
then Trebuchet

It's not a huge deal for new files but older files I've created using NTR are being affected but this anomaly. Head scratcher.

[karlkaminski]

A quick test: I created a Finale .mus file in Finale 2009 running on El Capitan, with some text blocks using Times, Athelas, Courier and Marion.

When loaded into Finale 27 on Mojave, all of the fonts displayed correctly; but the font menu still described these fonts as 'missing'; and all the font styles were 'off by one' from Athelas onwards.

Compare to Pages.app, where a similar document, made on an earlier version running on El Capitan, showed the text in the correct fonts and had no problems with the font selection dialogs.

AH! now I see it! mine are also 'displaced' in the font list. How do we fix this?—must be a finale bug as the rest of my Mac app locate assign fonts properly.

[John Ruggero]

Read the thread above you will find the solution.