multiple time signature how best :-)

[xxrich]

Greetings!
So I created a score section per attached. Quick and dirty and you know, functional IMHO
But not up to code as they say. How best to change that measure with mid-repeat to 2 2/4's?

Searched a bit and yeah, I can independently change the measure to 2/4, but I would need to insert another measure of 2/4. Not sure how to do that and my experience has been it may cause troubles downstream.

I saw some talk that might suggest keeping it 4/4 and just changing the display characteristics. Not sure how to do that either. Thoughts on what might be best?
-rich

[Peter Thomsen]

From the screen shot it is not clear what is needed - and why.

Could you perhaps attach a scanning of the manuscript page?

And perhaps explain the problem a little more in detail?

The better we understand, the better we can help.

[xxrich]

Hmm. Well, it's a 4/4 measure with a repeat sign after 2 beats - *just for that instrument*.

I think it's quite clear but I don't think musicians would see it that way:-). My notion is to change that measure with the repeat to two 2/4's, with the repeat after the first 2/4 - again, just for that instrument.

[Peter Thomsen]

… it's a 4/4 measure with a repeat sign after 2 beats - *just for that instrument* …

The better we understand, the better we can help.

With so little knowledge of the actual context it is difficult to suggest the best solution.
You may get suggestions that will not help you in the actual context.

You tell that the repeat bar is *just for that instrument*.
Then, what is going on in the other staves - at the place of the repeat bar?
How many staves are there in the Finale document?
Are all the other staves hidden at the place of the repeat bar?
If all the other staves are hidden at the place of the repeat bar, then you could just add the repeat bar to all the staves.

Could you perhaps attach a scanning of the manuscript page?
That would help a lot.

[xxrich]

Thanks Peter! Good questions I've been there so long I forget the overall context.

Individual instruments come in progressively and repeat their phrase at repeatable intervals. There is a beat but no notion of time signature per se. It’s in 4/4 only for the composer’s convenience. Suggestions welcome

(interesting since you are the moderator - having troubles uploading. Seems pdf not valid at 32kb. Low res jpg is 542kb - too big. Have to snap shot the pdf me thinks:-))

[Peter Thomsen]

xxrich,

Your attached graphic helps a lot.

In this case I suppose that playback is not an issue - right?

I suggest that you simply use the Expression Tool to add false repeat bars (shape expressions).

See the two attached files.

To view the attached PDF file you must first un-zip it.

[xxrich]

Oh dear, I don't think I was clear.
What I uploaded *was* done in Finale, and as you suggested. I'm looking for a more eloquent way to express without a repeat bar in the middle of a measure (for example). Like changing a single measure to 2 2/4's or doing away with the notion of 4/4 altogether.

Curious though, perhaps maybe you think it is fine the way it is. I think it would be something perhaps not seen by musicians before.
-rich

[Peter Thomsen]

xxrich,

If you get a feeling that I do not understand your thoughts, then you are probably right.

1) In your example, I suppose that all staves play at the same tempo - right?

2) You do know the plug-in Split Measure - right?

3) You can create a layout without barlines - by hiding barlines, or by using bigger time signatures so that 1 system = 1 measure.

Questions for you:

A. What is the problem you are trying to solve?

B. What should the layout look like?

[xxrich]

Split measures plug-in I did not know.

In your mus file you provided:
-8 staves down, I made the Time Signature and Independent Element for this stave only.
-highlighted the measure with 1 beat then a repeat
-in Split Measures:
--Splint after 1 beat
--Dashed
unchecked move to next system.
It hangs Finale

My expectation was it might split only that measure in only that stave and make it a 1/4 and a 3/4.
-rich

[Peter Thomsen]

As far As I Know, the Split Measure plug-in always splits the measure in all the staves.
You can not split a measure in one of the staves only.

This is due to Finale’s file data structure where a measure is the same measure in all the staves.

Do not select Independent Time Signature in one of the staves.
That does not make sense (since the plug-in affects all the staves), and it will make Finale crash - as you have found out.

When I tried your steps*) - without selecting Time Signature as an Independent Element - the plug-in correctly split the measure in all the staves, without crash.

*) Actually I did not follow your steps exactly; I did not “highlight the measure”.
Instead I highlighted only the first beat of the measure.

By The Way:
* Do you know the plug-in Mid Measure Repeats? (which also works on all the staves in a measure)


Finale offers many options, and it is possible to create many different (special) layouts.
However, many of the more special layouts are only possible via clever workarounds (= possible, but time consuming).

The following example was created in Finale (time consuming!).
The middle staff (only the middle staff!) has an accelerando:

[xxrich]

Yes, the Staggard Barlines is where I was headed. But getting there from my already notated 4/4 document will be as you say. . . time consuming. I don't see a good/easy way to get there from an already somewhat completed score.
-rich

[N Grossingink]

You might want to check out Dorico, which does this kind of notation natively. In today's world, you're just using the wrong tool for the job.