Ties start AFTER the dot, or not?

[thomsmit57]

Hello,

I'm working on a piece in 12/8 and 9/8. Needless to say, there are many instances of dotted notes and dotted notes that are tied.
I see Gould says "Place the dot within the tie - the tie does not follow the dot."

What is the general consensus here? Sometimes I don't feel like Gould is the final word on everything. Starting the tie AFTER the dot doesn't seem, or look so bad.....or does it?

[motet]

Finale's defaults seem fine. Why make extra work for yourself tweaking them?

[John Ruggero]

I also think that ties look better leading directly to the note heads for all notes, including dotted notes. However, I find Finale's defaults problematic for multiple voices and have to doctor every one:

Turning off "outer placement" is even worse:

Is there a fix?

[thomsmit57]

Motet: thanks for weighing in; Finale's defaults are, at best, a starting point for me.

John: I seem to have a similar 'aerial' view about the situation as you. Defaults will take care of some of the work, but tweaking is inevitable. I guess maybe I was looking for a magical, one-size-fits-all solution, but there really isn't any, as you've illustrated.
(your bottom example is "outer placement" turned ON, right? that's what outer placement ON renders on my machine. Or am I getting confused with "after the dot?")

When I see your "inner placement" vs. "outer placement" up against each other, I have to admit the tie to the edge of the note head looks better. The horizontal spacing issues alone with outer placement seem to tilt it that way.

Looks like a lot of work ahead for me undoing/re-doing things. But that's alright. The fact that I'm questioning and having an open mind toward change means (to me anyway) that I'm not yet a total curmudgeon with a 'fixed' mindset.

[John Ruggero]

Motet's example and my example called "Finale Default" shows what happens when "Use Outer Placement" and "Start After Single Dot" are both checked. My example "Finale default with inner placement" shows what happens when "Use Outer Placement" is NOT checked but "Start after single dot" IS checked.

If both "Use Outer Placement" and "Start after single dot" are NOT checked it looks like this, which is also bad:

[N Grossingink]

One of Robert Patterson's plugins is called "Tie Mover" and I'm wondering whether it might be of interest to those who want control over tie adjustment with automation to greatly speed up the process.

Tie Mover is basically a filter to apply certain adjustments within a user-specified parameter. For instance, you can "move all ties on spaces within the staff away from the noteheads by XX amount". Running the plugin with your chosen settings will process the entire file if you so choose. Basically any option found in the tie options can be filtered out and changed as you wish. You can save your Tie Mover routines and run each with a single mouse click.

I have used Tie Mover on each of my projects for almost 20 years and couldn't be more enthusiastic. However, Tie Mover is not for the feint of heart. The interface is not exactly user-friendly, but with time gets easier to use.

The Patterson plugins are available with a free 30 day tryout. Robert also has full documentation on the website and provides top-notch email support:
https://robertgpatterson.com/-fininfo/finmain.html

[John Ruggero]

Thanks so much, N. That plug-in may be a must-have for me too!

[thomsmit57]

Thanks, John.
and thanks N. for the Plug-in idea. Will definitely be looking into that.