Achieving different text expression sizes for score and parts

[htoker]

I am writing an orchestral score. I want the conductor to see the text expressions nice and big, since he will have a large score in front of him with lots of tempo changes and other expressions that have to catch his eye. However, I want the same expressions to appear smaller in the parts. By default, if I make a text expression 12 or 14 in size, it's ideal for the part, however too small for the score. If I make them 18 or even 24, it's ideal for the score, but too big for the parts. I can think of painstaking ways of achieving different sizes for the score and parts: creating two versions of each expression -one big, one small-, assigning both in each needed measure, then hiding one or the other from the score and part.

Is there a more practical way to achieve this?

[motet]

Seems like separate score and parts settings in the category designer would be a good new feature.

Sometimes the easiest thing is to wait until you've input everything, then make duplicate of the file and use one file for the score and another for the parts.

[michelp]

Absolutely. Following the example of measure numbers, for which we can apply different parameters for the score and the linked parts. Expressions, their categories and Text blocks (at least) should offer a similar option.

[Peter Thomsen]

… By default, if I make a text expression 12 or 14 in size, it's ideal for the part, however too small for the score. If I make them 18 or even 24, it's ideal for the score, but too big for the parts …

There may be a solution for you, but we need more info.

The actual expression size depends on more than the text’s Point size.

An expression is attached to a staff or system, with a specific staff height.
The expression size is scaled after the staff height.
Smaller staves get smaller expressions.

The staff height is affected by the Page Scaling and the System Scaling.

The staff height can also be affected by the Staff Scaling, but my guess is that your Finale document has 100 % Staff Scaling everywhere.
Individual Staff Scaling is used in duo scores for solo instrument (e. g. Violin) and accompaniment (e. g. Piano).

Open the Finale document, and take a look at the default Page Format settings. (Document menu)

1) In the score, what is the System Scaling? - and what is the Page Scaling?

2) In the parts, what is the System Scaling? - and what is the Page Scaling?

I assume that the default Page Format settings are used everywhere.
It is possible to, “locally” deviate from the default settings, so that a particularly “busy” page is downsized by a few percent.

[Gareth Green]

You could also experiment with using "fixed size" fonts ... works for me most of the time.

[htoker]

Gareth, thank you so much! 'The 'Fixed size'' box totally fixed my problem!

Peter, thank you as well, for the detailed info and suggestion!
I went into the menu you mentioned, I fiddled with the page hight, page and system scalings of the parts. Nothing changed! Strange...
Perhaps I should mention: My parts page size is set to concert, not 8.5x11; and my score page size is custom (14x10in); but that shouldn't, should it? There must be something else, preventing the change...

In the mean time, I found one other way: Rehearsal Marks Category Fonts! If I move my expressions into the rehearsal marks category and tick that box that says 'Rehearsal Marks Category Fonts', the expression appears large on the score and small in the part; perfect sizing! But Gareth's method is more practical.

[Peter Thomsen]

… Peter, thank you as well, for the detailed info and suggestion!
I went into the menu you mentioned, I fiddled with the page hight, page and system scalings of the parts. Nothing changed! Strange…

When you tell that “nothing changed”, I suppose that the numbers in the different fields actually did change, but you did not see any change in the already existing pages - right?

Not strange at all.

The already existing pages will not change until you Redefine Pages (Page Layout Tool, Page Layout menu).
This is by design, and what users have requested.

It is very important that the user can change the formatting of individual pages/systems.

A common solution for a “very busy” page is to scale down that very page.
No one will notice if the page is downscaled by a few per cent only.
But the downscaling will make the spacing look less “crowded”.

[motet]

The already existing pages will not change until you Redefine Pages (Page Layout Tool, Page Layout menu).
This is by design, and what users have requested.

Have users really requested this? I would have thought that having new pages appear in a different format would be something someone would rarely want. It's counter-intuitive and and must in the top 5 of support requests from confused users.

[Peter Thomsen]

The already existing pages will not change until you Redefine Pages (Page Layout Tool, Page Layout menu).
This is by design, and what users have requested.

Have users really requested this? I would have thought that having new pages appear in a different format would be something someone would rarely want. It's counter-intuitive and and must in the top 5 of support requests from confused users.

Users have requested the option of having different formatting of individual pages/systems (like e. g. downscaling a “dense” score page by a few percent).

I can imagine a storm of protests from angry users if suddenly, in the next Finale version, a change in the Page Format window would automatically Redefine All Pages, thus destroying individual layout of specific pages/systems.

However, Finale could definitely be more user friendly in this area.

1) It Would Be Nice if the Page Format window included a button to {Redefine Already Existing Pages…} - so that you would not have to go to the Page Layout menu.

2) A better name for the Page Format window could be {Default Format for New Systems/Pages}.


While we at at the subject of user interface:
The command {Show Active Layer Only} (in the Document menu) should be renamed to {Edit/Show Active Layer Only}.

[motet]

Users have requested the option of having different formatting of individual pages/systems (like e. g. downscaling a “dense” score page by a few percent).

I can imagine a storm of protests from angry users if suddenly, in the next Finale version, a change in the Page Format window would automatically Redefine All Pages, thus destroying individual layout of specific pages/systems.

I think most users would set up the Page Format, then downscale individual pages as necessary. The only reason to touch Page Format again is if you decide you need bigger paper, or need to rescale everything, but perhaps there are some out there doing as you suggest. More often, someone will change the page size from the Page Layout tool, then do something to cause a new page to be generated, then wonder why their settings changed.

[htoker]

When you tell that “nothing changed”, I suppose that the numbers in the different fields actually did change, but you did not see any change in the already existing pages - right?

Not strange at all.

The already existing pages will not change until you Redefine Pages (Page Layout Tool, Page Layout menu).
This is by design, and what users have requested.

I

That's right, I hadn't redefined pages. OK, I'll keep that in mind for next time. I've solved the issue a different way for now. Thank you once again, Peter!