Dynamic Placement

[Brent]

I've read many of the posts on the topic, and tried using the settings that were offered, but I'm still having a devil of a time getting them to appear where they ought to be. I'm especially having issues when I use the selection tool to enter dynamics for a number of instruments at a time. Some of the dynamics appear in the correct location while others get stuffed up onto the staff, or a mile below the staff. When I attempt to move them to their correct location some have been assigned to the stave below.

I'm using version 27.2.0.144 on a new laptop and I've never had this problem on my desktop. What am I missing? I've been using Finale for almost thirty years, and I'm anxious to learn more about it.

Thanks, in advance, for suggestions and help.

...Brent

[ebiggs1]

Just let Finale put them in the default location. There is a plug-in in the TG Tools drop down, Align/Move dynamics. You can tell it where you want one measure, several measures or the entire document adjusted.
You do need to be very careful you assign the dynamics to the correct staff. The plug-in will not fix that.

[motet]

The Dynamics category should do the right thing if you use the metatools. For example, to apply f, hold down the 4 key (top row) and click on the note. To do a bunch of staves at once, hold down 4 and use the mouse to draw a box around the notes you want to apply the f to.

[Brent]

Ah, Motet, you have save me once again. I feel kinda dopey after trying that and seeing how beautifully it works. I've used meta tools forever, but only on one part at a time. I had no idea that I could mass enter dynamics the same way. Like it said yesterday I love learning new things about this program.

Thank you so much!

[Brent]

Geez, I'm back already. After I made that thank you post I got back to work on my concert band arrangement, and while the meta tools enter dynamics brilliantly I'm still having an issue with some of their placements. Again some of the dynamics appear correctly, while others are 'way too far below the staff, and others are up into the staff itself.

I guess my question this time is what are the correct 'factory settings' for the dynamics category? I may have inadvertently changed them while looking for a solution to my original problems.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

...Brent

[ebiggs1]

There is a plug-in in the TG Tools drop down, Align/Move dynamics. You can tell it where you want one measure, several measures or the entire document adjusted.

[motet]

I guess my question this time is what are the correct 'factory settings' for the dynamics category? I may have inadvertently changed them while looking for a solution to my original problems.

Open a new "Default document" from the File menu, then go to the Category designer and pick Dynamics. There you'll find the Finale defaults. The easiest thing is manually make your document match that.

If you've changed any of the dynamics individually, make sure they're using the category positioning.

[Peter Thomsen]

… Also, in the Expression Selection you can select all the dynamics, and choose
Reset to Category > Fonts & Positioning

[motet]

Just let Finale put them in the default location. There is a plug-in in the TG Tools drop down, Align/Move dynamics.

It sounds like Brent's defaults are messed up.

It's possible to achieve good results without resorting to plug-ins. I have two sets of dynamics, the second set for when there is an articulation underneath the note and the dynamic needs to be lower (I'm happy to share the two category settings). I use Align/Move dynamics in situations where there's a hairpin, or where, due to low notes, dynamics near each other might look better with the same vertical alignment. But that's the exception; mostly they're placed where I want them without manual adjustment.

But whatever works. It sounds like some people don't worry about this stuff, and instead rely on a plug-in (e.g. Perfect Layout) to clean everything up.

[N Grossingink]

If the dynamics are in the "Miscellaneous" category, they likely came from an old Finale file. Move them to the "Dynamics" category and choose "Reset to Fonts and Position" from the dropdown menu.

[Brent]

Thank you all for your time and input. I did return my settings to original and it made a small difference. I'm still baffled by some idiosyncrasies with it though. Using the meta tool method I input a dynamic on flutes one and two in my score and the dynamic appeared perfectly in flute one. In the flute two part it appeared considerably lower than in one, and yet both parts contained notes that were well up in the staff. Any idea why I see these discrepancies in various parts?

Again, thank you so much for your time, patience and expertise. This ol' guy really appreciates it.

...Brent

[ebiggs1]

It sounds like some people don't worry about this stuff, and instead rely on a plug-in (e.g. Perfect Layout) to clean everything up.

That's because PL works and is quick. The reason I didn't suggest it is, the TG Tools> Align/Move dynamics is included in Finale and PL is an extra cost option. Its more fun to write music than it is to fiddle with placement of dynamics and other stuff.

[motet]

Using the meta tool method I input a dynamic on flutes one and two in my score and the dynamic appeared perfectly in flute one. In the flute two part it appeared considerably lower than in one, and yet both parts contained notes that were well up in the staff. Any idea why I see these discrepancies in various parts?

Something's causing it. If you can attach your file someone can figure it out.

[Brent]

I have attached an excerpt of my score to this post. Try to enter a dynamic to the woodwinds at measure 13 using meta tools and you'll notice that the vertical placement is all over the place. Some are in the correct position, but some are placed right in the staff or too far below the staff. I've encountered this issue throughout my score with a lot of manual placement edits necessary.

What settings are off, and how do I prevent this from occurring in future scores?

Thanks, again, to everyone for your help.

...Brent

[motet]

Expressions have a below-staff and an above-staff baseline. Somehow your below-staff baseline has been moved above the staff; dynamics are placed relative to this, and that's the source of your problems.

To fix it, go to the Edit menu and pick Measurement Units->EVPUs (you can put it back to inches or whatever you use when you're done).

Now go to the Expression tool. On the menu, pick "Adjust Below Staff Baseline." You'll see four trianlges. Drag the left-most one down with the mouse, watching the status bar at the bottom. Set it to say "(Piece: -140)", which is Finale's default.

If you've manually adjusted dynamics, they'll probably be in the wrong place now. You can remove manual adjustments selecting them and pressing Backspace. You can use Select All (Edit menu) in the Expression tool.

[Brent]

Thank you Motet. I’ll try those changes on Tuesday.

…Brent

[ebiggs1]

Brent,
Check this out. No messing with anything just run as is.

[N Grossingink]

Brent,
Check this out. No messing with anything just run as is.

His settings for the dynamics are wrong and should be fixed just so's everything works without any 3rd party intervention.

[motet]

Indeed. Putting the baseline back below the staff is not "messing with anything."

[ebiggs1]

However Finale never puts them correctly without 3rd party “intervention”. The solution is so simple perhaps not inexpensive but what is that works so well?

[motet]

However Finale never puts them correctly without 3rd party “intervention”. The solution is so simple perhaps not inexpensive but what is that works so well?

It places them correctly without third-party intervention for me. I do have two sets of dynamics, the normal one and a "lower" one to use if there is an articulation on a notehead below the staff. I have metatools assigned to all. (I'm happy to make the category settings for these available if anyone is interested). I'll sometimes use the keyboard shortcuts to the Align/Move plug-in when there's a mixed situation, but that's fairly uncommon.

Perfect Layout seems like a good thing, but is overkill for a lot of people, an extra step, no substitute for learning the program, and I think an inappropriate solution here.

Brent either accidentally moved the baseline--not that hard to do!--or the very-buggy Finale did it for him. I think it's easily fixed.

[ebiggs1]

You don't even realize it but your last post simply proves my point. Extra effort or 3rd party plug-in. No matter whether TG Tools Align dynamics is include or not it is a 3rd party plug-in. Two sets of articulations. Meta tools and you say Perfect Layout is overkill. Re-read your own post my friend. I don't do any of that. I don't bother with anything. I simply run PL when I am done.

[Brent]

What is PL?

[ebiggs1]

Perfect Layout is a plug-in that completely reorganized your score into publication standards. It requires nothing on your part just let Finale place what it does where it does and PL will correct everything. Did you look at your sample after I run PL on it?
https://elbsound.studio/perfect-layout/

[ebiggs1]

Brent,
Here is my latest score after I run PL on it and used Noteperformer3 for the sound. I didn't edit either just run them as they are.
https://youtu.be/oRPGvGtuZRc

I consider PL and NP3 as part of Finale and I wouldn't use it without them. Both have made things so much better in areas where MM doesn't see fit to do.