Tuplet adjustments are extremely slow

[Erik Hojsgaard]

Moving or adjusting tuplets, both numbers and brackets, are extremely slow regardless of whether you use Selection Tool or Tuplet Tool.
It is an issue which suddenly has occurred in:
Finale 26 - Monterey - iMac 2016
and Finale 27- Ventura - MacBookPro 2021

I would appreciate any help. Thanks.

Erik Hojsgaard

[Bill Stevens]

I don't experience that problem in 26. I will try on 27 on my other computer.

Does this happen on every instance, or just occasionally?

::: Bill

[Erik Hojsgaard]

It happens on every single tuplet, and it is really time consuming.
Meanwhile I have encountered that other Finale users might experience similar having mentioned it in the makemusic community.

- Erik

[Bill Stevens]

It doesn't happen for me with 27 either. Could you post a sample that demonstrates your problem?

::: Bill

[Erik Hojsgaard]

In this example the tuplet number should be moved closer to the primary beam and placed below the second note. Until recently this would last less than one second, and now takes at least 15 seconds. There is a delay between the movement of the mouse and what is shown on the screen, which also makes it difficult to place the number.

[Bill Stevens]

Erik,

No help, but moving the 3 is instant for me. I also created a bracket and that moved instantly as well. Hopefully someone else will chime in who has dealt with your problem.

::: Bill

[motet]

Does the same thing happen if you select the 3 and move it with the arrow keys?

[dtoub]

This had been happening to me long before F27 (and persists to the day). I can only adjust tuplet brackets, etc with the arrow keys; it’s slow since it increments, but that’s way faster than clicking and dragging. I reported it a ways back to MM and they acknowledged the bug if memory serves me, but it’s not been fixed to this day.

I’m on an Intel 2018 MBP. I wonder if it has anything to do with hardware, if it is not happening to everyone.

UPDATE: I just looked at my ticket requests with MakeMusic and yes, I reported this a year ago. For the most part, it was blamed on macOS, as it was indeed reproducible internally, and it was proposed that this would go away with a Finale or MacOS update. Well, I’m on the latest development beta for macOS 13.3 and the latest version of Finale and it clearly has persisted.

[Erik Hojsgaard]

Does the same thing happen if you select the 3 and move it with the arrow keys?

Using the arrow keys does speed it up. Yet you have to choose the tuplet number or bracket with your mouse, and it lasts approximately 3 seconds before the handle is activated/highlighted and then you can move it using the arrows.
This might be a solution.
Thanks.

[Erik Hojsgaard]

This had been happening to me long before F27 (and persists to the day). I can only adjust tuplet brackets, etc with the arrow keys; it’s slow since it increments, but that’s way faster than clicking and dragging. I reported it a ways back to MM and they acknowledged the bug if memory serves me, but it’s not been fixed to this day.

I’m on an Intel 2018 MBP. I wonder if it has anything to do with hardware, if it is not happening to everyone.

UPDATE: I just looked at my ticket requests with MakeMusic and yes, I reported this a year ago. For the most part, it was blamed on macOS, as it was indeed reproducible internally, and it was proposed that this would go away with a Finale or MacOS update. Well, I’m on the latest development beta for macOS 13.3 and the latest version of Finale and it clearly has persisted.

Thanks for replying.

The strange thing is that it affects only the tuplets; moving articulation, expression, adjusting beam slant etc. isn’t a problem at all.
What is even more strange is that it affect two computers: an iMac 2016 (with a mouse, Monterey, Finale 26 ad 27.3) and a MacBook Pro 2021 (trackpad, Ventura, Finale 27.3). This I cannot figure out.

I guess I will also need to use the arrows, even though there is a 3 seconds delay from clicking the tuplet numbers or the brackets with the mouse until the handle is highlighted.

[John Ruggero]

I am seeing the same thing in Finale 27, which I haven't actually started using yet. The tuplet number moves in jerks with the mouse, but the arrow keys move it properly. Behavior is normal in Finale 25. This bug is really intolerable.

[motet]

I hope someone complains to MakeMusic. If the same file on the same system misbehaves in Finale 27 but not Finale 25, that's pretty strong evidence that it's Finale's problem.

[MikeHalloran]

I'll post this in both places.

This may actually be an Apple issue—very easy to find out.

Go to System Preferences/Displays (System Settings/Displays in Ventura)

Uncheck the Default profile. This should let you chose a new Profile from a dropdown list. I like Apple Cinema HD Display Calibrated

Close the System window. There is no need to reboot.

If this fixes the problem, the culprit is the default 10 bit Color engine. Changing it fixed certain slow downs in Finale and Digital Performer.

Many apps are affected by this and I don't know if Apple ever addressed this in Monterey or Ventura. As you can see, I still use an alternate Color Profile. I'll likely look at this again when I get my Studio later this year. Till then, if it ain't broke, I'm not fixing it.

[Erik Hojsgaard]

Thank you very much for your replies.

I have tried changing to the other profiles in Preferences/Displays. Unfortunately this procedure didn’t solve the problem, neither in Monterey nor in Ventura.

I notice that those of you having the identical problem choose to use arrows, and this will also have to be my future way of moving tuplets.

I agree that this error is annoying, and the problem should be addressed to Finale even if it might be an Apple issue. However, my experiences with approaching Finale to bring specific bugs to their attention have not been positive.

- Erik

[John Ruggero]

Mike, I tried that also, with no success.

Bill Stevens is not seeing this on his Macs, which leaves room for hope, I guess. But after my last experience with MakeMusic support, I don't want to go there again, unless you feel that it would be helpful in this case.

[dtoub]

I’m pretty sure it’s a Finale issue that was never addressed. As mentioned, I had a good dialogue with one of their main support folks a year ago and they have an official bug report and number assigned.

It only affects moving tuplets. I just had to get used to using the arrow keys but that’s clunky. Lyon can use some plugins to move tuplets but I’m not sure that’s a whole lot faster.

So please do file bug reports. If it affects more than 1-2 of us, which clearly it does, then perhaps they will move more expeditiously. I’m running the latest Ventura beta (13.3) and will see if it’s still an issue but I’m pretty sure it’s still an issue since 13.1 didn’t fix it.

[motet]

Would changing the tuplet definition itself help, or do they really need to be different each time?

[John Ruggero]

Would changing the tuplet definition itself help, or do they really need to be different each time?

Thanks for the tip, Motet. I just changed some of my settings for the better for triplets. This would cut down on the hand modifying. But if one wants to place the tuplet number on the note head side, the vertical position of the number is not always good depending on the position of the notes on the staff. And I am not always seeing consistent centering on tuplets of more the three notes. I will keep experimenting, however.

I did report this to MakeMusic and will report back.

[John Ruggero]

It was just reported at https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ ... 7962519319
that MakeMusic confirmed the problem under discussion as a bug.

As stated in the post, this bug doesn't occur in scroll view, only in page view. I just confirmed that. Perhaps that is why some people are not seeing it.

[dtoub]

It was also confirmed by MM to me back in November, 2021 and it sounded like they might have known about it before then. Hoping they will finally fix it. Yes, it affects page view (that's all I use, actually).

[John Ruggero]

I just heard back from MakeMusic personally. They said that they are aware of the bug and that they will "hopefully address it" in a future maintenance update.

I also only use page view, so using scroll view is not really a help for me either.

[motet]

I understand working only in Page View, especially for fine cosmetic tweaking for things like this, but might it not be expedient to switch views to get the tuplet placement most of the way there? Ctrl+E toggles back and forth. If you select the measure before switching, it should keep your place.

Does the "Automatic Update Layout" setting have any effect? That really has to do with keeping the display up to date.

[dtoub]

For me it's just a preference and I do occasionally use CMD-E to switch views (albeit briefly), and my location is always where it should be. But that's not the point-one shouldn't have to invoke Scroll View just to tweak a tuplet position.

Automatic update layout shouldn't affect whether or not I, as the user, can drag a tuplet when I can drag any other element where I want it...

[motet]

Yes, one shouldn't have to. I was just suggesting a work-around since it sounds like they won't fix this any time soon.

[dtoub]

True that. Thanks