Hand Grabber Keyboard Command

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John Ruggero
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Post by John Ruggero » Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:53 pm

Is it possible to change the Finale keyboard command for the Hand Grabber: option-command, to a different keyboard command?
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:05 pm

I use a Track Pad.

Swiping with two fingers works the same way as Option-Command - without using the computer keyboard at all.
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Post by John Ruggero » Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:21 pm

Thanks, Peter, but. that wouldn't work for me. I need the same keyboard command for Finale Hand Grabber as for Mac Preview Hand Grabber as I move through both a Finale File and a PDF on the same monitor. It gets confusing sometimes.

So I'd like to change the Finale Hand Grabber to Option-Spacebar, but that command is taken already by the Scrubber so the Mac Preferences>Keyboard Command and Keyboard Maestro can't seem to override that.
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Post by mmike » Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:56 pm

This may not apply since you're on a Mac. I do this in Windows all the time - one window Adobe Acrobat to view/move pdf files with the hand grabber, and the other Finale window, where (at least in Windows 10 with Finale 27.3) I move things with the hand grabber by right-clicking and holding the hand that appears that way (which must be a built-in feature, I haven't programmed anything)
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Post by John Ruggero » Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:21 pm

Glad that works for you, but I don't think it applies to Mac Finale 25. Ideally it would. be the same shortcut for both hand grabbers.

So I am wondering if one can change the build-in Finale Keyboard shortcuts or disable them. Anyone know?
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Post by michelp » Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:53 pm

Maybe an idea (not tested) : with Keyboard Maestro, you could redefine the shortcut for both programs (Finale and Preview), including similar modifier keys. So you could get at least identical shortcuts. You just have to keep in mind to add the modifier keys.
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Post by John Ruggero » Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:27 pm

Thanks, Michelp. It's a good idea, but as you may have implied, it's not going to be easy to find convenient shortcuts that are not already Finale, Preview or my own programmed Finale Keyboard Maestro shortcuts.

I may have to stick with what I've got. At least, I can keep three fingers planted over the needed keys.
Last edited by John Ruggero on Sat Mar 11, 2023 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by dtoub » Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:21 pm

I might be misunderstanding but I've used this guidance for various apps on my Mac to remap keyboard shortcuts, and it should work for this: https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-hel ... lp2271/mac
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Post by bakkumd » Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:22 am

John,

I don't believe Keyboard Maestro can accomplish this. Here's why: your desired shortcut of CMD+OPT doesn't invoke a keystroke, so there is nothing for Keyboard Maestro to receive. I tried the "This hot key is down" trigger in conjunction with a "type the keystroke" action and it doesn't work. I'm guessing the reason is partially due to CMD+OPT already being used (as you stated) and then the KM "type the keystroke" just repeatedly typing your "CMD+OPT" rather than sending a "keep down while "X" is still pressed". The behavior on-screen ends up being the cursor jumping back and forth from the hand grabber and the little scrubber speaker. If KM had a "keep these keys pressed while these other keys are pressed" action, it might have worked.

If someone knows a workaround or way to send a "key down/stay pressed" action via Keyboard Maestro please post the secret - thanks!

Using a mouse utility app called SteerMouse, you can assign a mouse button to invoke the hand grabber and do it all with one hand. SteerMouse is a mouse controller application that can assign any type of command, including keyboard shortcuts and/or just modifier keys, to mouse button activation.

Assign the modifier keys CMD+OPT to a thumb button and hold it down - the cursor turns to the hand grabber and stays there as long as you hold down the assigned mouse button - it works! Then, while holding that button down with thumb, click and reposition your Finale page as needed. SteerMouse has application specific button assignments so you could assign the same button to select the hand grabber tool from any app, regardless of the specific app's grabber shortcut command. Of course, you need to have a multi-button mouse and the SteerMouse utility app ($20). I use a cheap five button mouse from Kensington - works great.

I've also included a link which shows basic remapping of a desired replacement shortcut to an existing (undesired) shortcut using Keyboard Maestro. It has endless possibilities in Finale for creating single key shortcuts depending on your workflow and editing stages. My favorite application of this method is for leveling dynamics.

https://robservatory.com/remap-non-modi ... n-any-app/

When traveling, I don't bring my extended keyboard, but I have a number of Finale shortcuts that require it. Leveling dynamics being one of them. So when I'm ready to level dynamics and hairpins I turn this macro group on and use the a, s, d keys for the three leveling shortcuts. This allows me to use these shortcuts with a Mac laptop keyboard.

I set up a macro group using the keys a, s, and d. "a" replaces CMD+OPT+Key Pad"*", "s" replaces CMD-OPT+Key Pad"-", and "d" replaces CMD-OPT+Key Pad"+". I use the mouse to select the necessary measures and my left hand to invoke the a, s, or d commands. Once I'm done leveling all dynamics/hairpins, I turn off this macro group to resume normal editing/typing. No extended keyboard needed. You could also assign "q" to CMD-Page down and "w" to CMD-Page Up for faster navigation while leveling dynamics in the score or parts.

This one key substitution option can work for any mult-key shortcut. Always remember to deactivate those specific KM macros/groups when done with them in your workflow, so you can resume normal keyboard operation.
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Post by John Ruggero » Sat Mar 11, 2023 12:25 pm

dtoub wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2023 7:21 pm
I might be misunderstanding but I've used this guidance for various apps on my Mac to remap keyboard shortcuts, and it should work for this: https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-hel ... lp2271/mac
I had assigned a new shortcut to Finale through the Mac OS as described in the link in your post, but it didn't work. The problem seems to be that the Hand Grabber already has keyboard commands assigned in both Preview and Finale, and I don't know how to change or deactivate either of them.
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Post by John Ruggero » Sat Mar 11, 2023 12:37 pm

Thank you for that information, bakkumd. SteerMouse sounds like a very interesting solution that I will try today. I use an Adesso upright mouse that has several buttons on it, so I am assuming it would work with that one.

So the Keyboard maestro remapping system that you show only works for remapping shortcuts that one has assigned oneself and not for keyboard commands assigned by the software?
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Post by bakkumd » Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:59 pm

John,
So the Keyboard maestro remapping system that you show only works for remapping shortcuts that one has assigned oneself and not for keyboard commands assigned by the software?
That link shows only one of dozens of possible ways to trigger just about anything in any app. In the “action” area of the example I linked, the user has told KM to send specific key presses to the app when it intercepts a key sequence match. The original keyboard shortcut is still there and will still work if you haven’t used that key combination within KM. KM will override the app shortcut as it “sees” the trigger (key sequence) first.

What KM does after it intercepts your specific key sequence (the trigger) is called the “action”. You could just as easily create different “actions” that don’t use menu commands. You could instantly change your slur settings, automatically enter setup data, or change page margins, or select a different printer. The list of possibilities is endless.

KM is listening to all of your input sources continuously… and if it discovers a match, it intercepts and stops the match from getting to the app and sends whatever you have told it to send instead, and where you have told it to send it (it doesn’t have to be the active app), or… it could do something completely different. There are too many possible actions to list here. In the linked case above - it is substituting the user’s custom trigger with an existing keyboard shortcut to invoke this shortcut in the app. The app never sees the original key press (the trigger) because KM stops it and sends what you told it to send instead (the action). If you wanted to invoke a menu command that doesn’t have a built in shortcut, you would use a menu item action instead. KM would simply select the menu item you entered, as if you had taken your mouse and clicked on it. The difference is in the speed and repeatability.

You could also assign buttons from a StreamDeck or most any other hardware device to initiate a single action, or a series of actions in an app. I use KM enabled function key presses for re-arranging app windows, creating scores from scratch via the setup wizard, entering a lengthy series of document option settings, turning pages with one key stroke, executing plugins, automatically pressing buttons, updating page setups for score and parts - the list could be endless.

An example that I use daily: When it’s time to save out PDF parts - I press one key and KM asks me for some input. In this example, it is the number of parts I want exported via the graphics tool. Using the graphics tool gets me true black PDF files which print using only the black toner on my color laser printer. The other “save as PDF” way saves a color composite PDF using “rich black” (possibly a Mac only issue…), which is a combination of all colors (CMYK) and uses all toner colors to print. (Uses more toner and on close inspection, is less detailed)

If my score has 34 instruments, I enter “34”. The KM macro then proceeds to loop through the parts 34 times, grabs the current part name and calculates it’s score order number. It then saves the PDF and updates this new PDF’s file name with it’s order number - song title - instrument name. Then selects the next part and loops through the macro again. In the Finder, the first PDF part might be named “01 - Song Name - Piccolo”. The next part might be “02 - Song Name - Flute 1”. This continues by looping the number of times you entered at the start (34). When it’s done, it opens the Mac OS folder the parts were saved in, makes it the active window and beeps to tell me it has finished.

Doing that manually would take 10+ minutes every time and I could enter errors/typos. KM does it in about 45 seconds with zero errors/typos.

KM is extremely powerful and can speed up your Finale workflow. Once I started using it, I realized I could speed up pretty much everything by just pressing specific key combinations or StreamDeck buttons and assigning actions for those key combinations/buttons in KM. The Apple built in keyboard shortcut method is limited to only invoking active app menu items - it can’t do any other type of action. Also - it is limited to a single menu item per each custom keyboard shortcut you might enter.

There are a number of web pages/sites devoted to KM macros designed for Finale or virtually any Mac app - Google will find them for you. For windows users, I have read that a similar app called “AutoHotKey” might do similar things, although I’ve never explored it.
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Post by John Ruggero » Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:10 am

That is very interesting and something I will investigate. However I may have asked the wrong question at the end of my last post. It was in response to this:
bakkumd wrote:
Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:22 am
I don't believe Keyboard Maestro can accomplish this. Here's why: your desired shortcut of CMD+OPT doesn't invoke a keystroke, so there is nothing for Keyboard Maestro to receive. I tried the "This hot key is down" trigger in conjunction with a "type the keystroke" action and it doesn't work. I'm guessing the reason is partially due to CMD+OPT already being used (as you stated)
The reason I asked the question is because I though you meant that Keyboard Maestro couldn't replace keyboard shortcuts that had already been assigned by the program itself. But perhaps you meant that it just can't deal with the keyboard shortcut "Option-Command". Is that correct?

Actually I would like to replace Finale's Option-Command shortcut with Preview's Option-Spacebar. I did try that replacement with Keyboard Maestro, but it didn't work. Should Option-Spacebar work as a shortcut?
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Post by bakkumd » Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:34 am

It is both of those things. KM doesn't replace a keyboard shortcut in an app. It adds an intercept layer in front of the application. And, in this specific case, can't handle OPT+CMD as a stand alone shortcut.

The case of OPT+CMD changing the cursor to the hand grabber tool is a little different. OPT+CMD has to remain pressed while the hand grabber tool is used. Also - there is no regular key pressed. This is technically not a keyboard shortcut in the same way as CMD+P is a shortcut. It is a change of modifier key state - from up to down. The hand grabber tool appears only when both keys are pressed and held down. Currently, KM does not have the ability to send a continuous state of "down" for any key. So - getting your desired shortcut substitution for the hand grabber isn't possible using KM.

This same issue would impact the SHIFT+CMD and SHIFT+CMD+OPT "shortcuts" for the zoom tool as well. Unfortunately, You have picked one of three Finale shortcuts (that I am aware of) that aren't actually shortcuts in the same way CMD+p is, they are modifier key state changes (open or pressed).

In Preview - OPT+Space Bar can't be handled in this situation by KM either - KM can't send a continuous state of "down" for any key.
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Post by michelp » Sun Mar 12, 2023 12:46 pm

bakkumd wrote:
Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:34 am
KM can't send a continuous state of "down" for any key.
I made some tests and found that limitation, too.
Michel
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Post by John Ruggero » Sun Mar 12, 2023 1:02 pm

Thanks so much, bakkund. Now I get it. So it's Catch 22 time. I want to match the Finale shortcut and Preview shortcuts but I can't change the Preview shortcut to something that Keyboard Maestro can deal with since there is no mechanism for changing Preview shortcuts. So that would answer my original question. There is no way except by means of a mouse button.

In any case, thank you again for the extensive information Keyboard Maestro. From your description it is clear that it can do a lot more for Finale users than I am using it for, and I need to investigate it further.

Couldn't figure out how to install SteerMouse. Not one of the most hand-holding installations I've encountered. It seemed to get stuck at the granting accessibility stage, and I could never get out of that. Nor could I actually find the application anywhere. That brought up security concerns.
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Post by bakkumd » Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:48 pm

John,

SteerMouse can be found here: https://plentycom.jp/en/steermouse/

It is not available in the Mac App store. The current version is 5.6.7 and is compatible with Mojave through Ventura. Legacy versions are available for older systems. There is a 30 day free trial as well.

The Support and FAQ page is here: https://plentycom.jp/en/steermouse/support.html

As with any utility app that can control system functions, SteerMouse requires Admin user level permission to access the Accessibility functions. If you are on Monterey or Ventura, there might be an additional step as outlined in the first FAQ question from the link above.

I've used it for years on all my machines. I'm able to set global mouse and button behaviors throughout all my applications. The best feature for me is being able to edit mouse behaviors on one machine, then save the preferences and load them into all other machines via iCloud/Dropbox, etc. - making sure all my computers have matching mouse behaviors for all apps.

Good luck with your projects! I must also add that I have much appreciated all of your posts and contributions to this site and others. I've learned so much about the fine details of quality music engraving, music fonts, and other topics from threads you have participated in. Thank you so much and all the best!!
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Post by motet » Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:25 pm

Windows has a program called AutoHotkey which lets you specify key down and key up separately if you wish, which seems to be what's needed here. Is there no Mac equivalent?

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Post by bakkumd » Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:48 pm

motet,
Is there no Mac equivalent?
Keyboard Maestro will do just about anything... except send a continuous "key is still pressed" while holding down only a modifier key. The SteerMouse utility app does it. But it requires your mouse have an unused button and only works with mouse buttons - not modifier keys on a keyboard.
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Post by John Ruggero » Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:59 pm

Thanks for your kind words and help, bakkumd. I also find these forums incredibly useful and have learned a lot from them.

I meant I couldn't find the Steermouse application folder on my computer once it was sort-of "installed" and asking me to give it permissions under System Preferences>Security and Privacy>Accessibility. I would give it the permissions, then it would ask again, ad infinitum, with no further instructions happening. So I gave up.

I'll try again.

Update. Success! I finally got SteerMouse installed and programmed the button for both programs. It works brilliantly! Thanks so much for all the help, bakkund! I still can't find the Steermouse application in Applications, but can invoke it by doing a spotlight search. Maybe it will show up after I restart my computer tomorrow. (Just found it at the bottom of System Preferences. Maybe that is where it lives.)
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Post by bakkumd » Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:27 pm

John,

The SteerMouse.app GUI component lives here: Applications Folder --> Utilities Folder.

The only way I've ever accessed it is by opening the System Preferences and clicking on the SteerMouse icon. If you can't find it in the icon grid, type "SteerMouse" into the search bar on the system preferences window. It's other components live in library folders similar to other system level utilities - A Wacom tablet driver as another example.

If you are opening it regularly to add/edit your mouse actions, you could drag the app icon to your Dock. Do not move the app from the Utilities folder though - it may not function correctly.

You could also just leave it open on your desktop as long as necessary while you are configuring your mouse shortcuts. The settings/shortcuts appear to be instantly incorporated as you enter them. That's what I did when I was first setting it up for all the various applications. It took me about two weeks to settle in on a rather large set of custom mouse button actions and shortcuts for my set of apps.
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Post by BuonTempi » Mon Mar 13, 2023 10:22 am

John Ruggero wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:21 pm
I need the same keyboard command for Finale Hand Grabber as for Mac Preview Hand Grabber as I move through both a Finale File and a PDF on the same monitor.
I use a Trackpad, and so scrolling is done very easily on the input device itself. Even with a mouse that has a scroll wheel, you can scroll vertically and horizontally, so I've never seen the need for using the Hand Grabber in any application.

How do you scroll through windows in applications that don't have a Hand Grabber?

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Post by John Ruggero » Mon Mar 13, 2023 4:24 pm

I use an Adesso upright mouse which has only a vertical scroll wheel and does it very poorly. Before that an Apple Mouse that also had a poor scroll wheel. I am finding this new SteerMouse method much better. I use very few applications and will add those to the SteerMouse list of applications as I need to. Otherwise I use the scroll bars. Any other suggestions or recommendations would be greatly appreciated, Ben.

Another factor just occurred to me. I prefer over arm movements or finger movements on ergonomic safety grounds, being a pianist. For that reason, I didn't care for a trackball when I used it for a while.
Last edited by John Ruggero on Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by BuonTempi » Mon Mar 13, 2023 5:12 pm

On MacOS, you can normally scroll horizontally by holding SHIFT, if your mouse just has a vertical scroll wheel.

Personally, once I tried the Apple Trackpad, I never wanted to use a mouse again!

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Post by John Ruggero » Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:00 pm

I had forgotten that, Ben. Probably because I've never had a mouse that had decent scroll wheel. I should try a trackpad, but do wonder about precision. Which one do you use?
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