extending beams over rests for selection only

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jmus
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Post by jmus » Sat Jun 03, 2023 10:19 am

I know this can be done globally, but I only want to create extended beams over rests on certain measures (and or selection). Can this be done?
Have looked at JW/TG tools/Finale plug ins and can't find anything


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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:41 am

It is time consuming, but it can be done.

Are you talking about primary beams (= 8th beams)?
- or secondary beams?

Take a look at the two attached PDF files.

If you have questions, let me know.
Attachments
BeamOverRest-Locally.pdf.zip
(46.19 KiB) Downloaded 90 times
BeamingOverRests.pdf.zip
(27.41 KiB) Downloaded 72 times
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jmus
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Post by jmus » Sat Jun 03, 2023 12:04 pm

Peter Thomsen wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:41 am
It is time consuming, but it can be done.

Are you talking about primary beams (= 8th beams)?
- or secondary beams?

Take a look at the two attached PDF files.

If you have questions, let me know.
Thanks Peter, for the comprehenseive instructions! Wil give it a go.
Would be nice to have this as a plug in for future.

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N Grossingink
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Post by N Grossingink » Sat Jun 03, 2023 2:04 pm

Of course, I have no way of knowing the context in which you want to use this beaming. But as far as I know, beaming over rests is a style usually used throughout an engraving. I would be concerned that there might be some confusion introduced for players that get into "beam over rests mode" and suddenly find a different beaming style in place.
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jmus
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Post by jmus » Sat Jun 03, 2023 2:17 pm

N Grossingink wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 2:04 pm
Of course, I have no way of knowing the context in which you want to use this beaming. But as far as I know, beaming over rests is a style usually used throughout an engraving. I would be concerned that there might be some confusion introduced for players that get into "beam over rests mode" and suddenly find a different beaming style in place.
Hi and thanks for the post. I want to use it for a couple of complicated rhythms where it will be clearer for the player. Not sure the rest of the piece would warrent such a treatment, but yes, a valid point.

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motet
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Post by motet » Sat Jun 03, 2023 6:34 pm

It's unclear what you want to do--extend primary (eighth) beams over rests? Secondary (16th and smaller)? Do you want the beam hanging out over a trailing rest, or only rests between notes?

There is a discussion here that may or may not pertain:

viewtopic.php?t=15117

Be sure to read the second page as well.

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Post by jmus » Sat Jun 03, 2023 7:32 pm

motet wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2023 6:34 pm
It's unclear what you want to do--extend primary (eighth) beams over rests? Secondary (16th and smaller)? Do you want the beam hanging out over a trailing rest, or only rests between notes?

There is a discussion here that may or may not pertain:

viewtopic.php?t=15117

Be sure to read the second page as well.
Thanks for the link. I'd like to extend the primary beam over the rest. So for an example, if a tuplet where first two notes are written, I'd like the beam to extend over the rest as a hanging (I think that is correct term) beam as In Goulds book pg. 166 picture attached...
beam over rest.jpg

jmus
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Post by jmus » Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:14 am

Found the special tools beam extension tool...this at least extends the beam. Don't get the little hook on the end, but, its a good workaround and not too time consuming

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motet
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Post by motet » Sun Jun 04, 2023 3:34 pm

The "stemlet" can be done, but it's a whole lot of trouble. Here there's actually a blank notehead where the stemlet is (an E). The eighth rest is supplied in layer 2 with others hidden beneath the first two notes. Probably not worth it!
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0376.png
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motet
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Post by motet » Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:11 pm

Here's another idea: use an eighth rest for the notehead. I don't know how to shorten the stem, though. The Stem Length tool shortens it from the wrong end!
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0377.png

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Sun Jun 04, 2023 5:28 pm

motet wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 4:11 pm
Here's another idea: use an eighth rest for the notehead. I don't know how to shorten the stem, though. The Stem Length tool shortens it from the wrong end!
It can be done in this way:

ShortStem.jpg
ShortStem.jpg (2.43 KiB) Viewed 3891 times

Then, proceed as before, to get the layout without the notehead, but with the 8th rest.
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motet
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Post by motet » Mon Jun 05, 2023 3:03 am

That's what I did above, changing the notehead to a blank and putting the rest in another layer. But with a rest as the notehead, you're constrained where you want the rest to appear vertically.

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:28 am

motet wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 3:03 am
… with a rest as the notehead, you're constrained where you want the rest to appear vertically.
Not true.

In the dialog box Notehead Settings there is an option for for {Allow Vertical Positioning}.
By default this option is not selected.

When you use this option it is useful to know that
1 scale step = 3pt

The stem length will not change as you move the notehead vertically.
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NoteheadSettings.jpg
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motet
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Post by motet » Mon Jun 05, 2023 4:14 pm

Ah, very good.
Peter Thomsen wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:28 am
When you use this option it is useful to know that
1 scale step = 3pt
Or you can use "s" (spaces) as a suffix.

rosflute
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Post by rosflute » Tue Nov 28, 2023 11:53 am

I have found that a satisfactory work around is to create a time signature for those relevant bars so that the rhythmic grouping automatically beams notes across the rests. e.g. in 7/8 time, I needed to beam together the first 3, then the last 3 eighth-notes across a res. So I made a composite time signature of 1-1536 + 1-2048 [still showing a time signature of 7/8]. It's easy to unbeam anything in other part. Simple but effective! :D

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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:47 pm

rosflute wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2023 11:53 am
… in 7/8 time, I needed to beam together the first 3, then the last 3 eighth-notes across a res. So I made a composite time signature of 1-1536 + 1-2048 [still showing a time signature of 7/8] …
Indeed the Time Signature Tool is a very powerful tool.
You can also make the “real” time signature without using EDUs for Beat Duration:
Attachments
CompositeTime Signature.jpg
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