Graphics disappear in Finale 27

[John Ruggero]

I finally took a flyer and started a new project in Finale 27. I immediately run into a major issue. After successfully inserting about 15 small graphic musical examples in footnotes in a two page file, it suddenly refuses to display the last one. The graphic appears as a rectangle with no content for a second, then the content appears after clicking it and then immediately disappears, never to reappear. And if I delete all the graphics in the file it will now not accept any graphic file at all. Yet the same graphic will import properly into a different file in Finale 27.

Anyone else experience such a problem?

The same file has no graphics issues in Finale 25.5, and I have therefore gone back to that version.

[Djard]

By default, Finale does not embed graphic images, and if you move or rename the image file on your computer, the issue you describe will surface. If you edit a placed image but keep the same file name, the image will automatically update in the document.

I prefer to embed graphics: the file size increases, but then I can move files about without losing the image in the document. I also save a copy of all my work in PDF format, which also keeps the image. I recommend you delete the broken link (rectangle) and permanently embed the image as follows.

1. Right-click on the image -> Edit Graphics Attributes.
2. Uncheck "Link to file" box (at top left) -> OK -> File -> Save.

[John Ruggero]

Thanks, Djard. I also embed all my graphics and this one was also embedded. I just tried it again, made sure that the Link to file was unchecked, and it exhibits the same behavior. I tried attaching it to a measure as well as the page and the result is the same. Yet 12 other embedded graphics on that page are all fine. Here are screen shots:

Clicked in it firstlooks like this

Click the rectangle and you get this:

Move it into position and it again looks like this

Click it again and it is completely gone.

And as I mentioned I can embed the same graphic successfully in a fresh Finale 27 file. So it is not the graphic that is problem. Just this file has the problem. But all other aspects of the file are fine as far as I know.

But the main problem is that I no longer trust Finale 27's graphics tool. Who knows when it will suddenly exhibit this behavior and force extra work to recover. So I will stick to Finale 25.5 until this and the other serious issues in Finale 27, like the inability to move tuplet numbers in page view with the mouse, are fixed.

[BuonTempi]

I prefer to embed graphics: the file size increases, but then I can move files about without losing the image in the document. I

The main purpose/advantage of linking is that you can update the graphic image and have Finale refresh the new image. (Or, at least, that's what every other app that can link an image does.... )

But the main problem is that I no longer trust Finale 27's graphics tool.

There have been various bugs and problems with Finale's graphics tool, importing and exporting, continuously since at least ... <checks notes> 2008.

[Djard]

When you click on the rectangle the third time, drag the visible image aside to make sure it was not hidden as a layer behind the one on top. In my photo editor, images can be hidden in the background when layer 1 is opaque.

Maybe there a limit to the number of graphics placed in a document or on page. Try adding the graphics in a default document, keeping the file format the same: i.e. all JPG or all PNG. I know that Finale does not like images in PDF format. But if you are able to successfully replicate the project in v26 then that would point to a flaw in v27.

A great feature to the next version of Finale would be stability.

[John Ruggero]

I mentioned that I had successfully imbedded the same graphic in another Finale 27 file.

It occurred to me also that maybe there was a limit or something and tried deleting all the previously successfully imbedded graphics on the page and then reinserting the one that wouldn't imbed. Oddly, not only would it still not imbed, but I could not longer insert any of the graphics back into the file. So the file itself is problematic for some reason. I have never had such odd behavior in Finale 25.5 or previous versions and I have imbedded graphics in hundreds of pages. That is enough for me to not use Finale 27.

[Djard]

If Finale 27 offers useful features that are not available in your earlier version, you may want to keep both versions installed, especially since additions you might want, like Note Performer, require v27. I know v26.3 is quite unstable, wherein Finale loathes editing and documents are easily corrupted by use of glissandos and such. MakeMusic's ZenDesk admitted that VST plug-ins can cause problems, which I resolved by uninstalling them.

[John Ruggero]

Finale 27 is parked on my computer, awaiting updates that make it useable.

[Djard]

I hear your frustration. Sigh!

[N Grossingink]

Just thinking out loud-

√ What format are your graphics in? Try saving them as jpg and see just for fun if you can embed all of them. I know you probably don't want to use jpg.

√ I have used TIFF files for small footnote examples (1200 dpi) and they look pretty darn good. Maybe you'll have better luck with those.

[John Ruggero]

I always insert PDFs despite the fact that there is a problem with the graphic quality that has been explained in other posts, but that I accept since the examples are small. I believe it has to do with Finale not drawing graphics made from a Finale file the same way as the rest of the music. I just tried a TIFF and the result is the same: the graphic disappears.

Incidentally the first page of some files start up in Finale 27 like what is shown below, that is, with a small area of music missing. This clears up with a screen redraw but is not a great boost to one's confidence in the program. As I mentioned this same file acts normally in Finale 25.5:

[Djard]

On my system, Finale does not like to add PDF files as images. Since using the JPG format, I no longer experience problems with images.

[motet]

JPEG is bit-mapped rather than vector, and also lossy, though.

[Djard]

Yes, PDF is superior, but not fully compatible with Finale in my opinion. If you save the image as a JPG (or PNG that allows transparent background) at 300dpi or higher, the print quality is good, depending on your h'ware. I think the default resolution of Finale documents is 600dpi. If not printing to paper and solely for display in digital media, 72dpi is more than adequate for economic file size.

[motet]

How are you creating the PDFs? That may make a difference. Finale Graphics-Tool-created PDFs seem to work for me.

[Djard]

I design covers for my scores in MS-Word and Corel's Paint Shop Pro then save the page in PNG format, which allows a transparent background. Then, in Finale, I use the Graphic tool to place it as page 1. Every time I tried placing an image as a PDF file, I encountered a problem of one kind or another. Since confining myself to PNG at 300dpi, even 600dpi, I've not had any problems. Maybe Finale on a MAC s more stable.

[wessmusic]

I've always been an apologist for the idea of editing graphics in an external editor. Last year, however, influenced by my Chilean colleague Oliver Reid's YouTube channel "Desafíos en Finale", I decided to try his method (again). More than 20 years ago I made the same attempt shown in the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-bggK6 ... osenFinale, but it was unsuccessful and since then I have not even thought of such experiments. (Recently, as I recall, there was a similar topic raised with practical guidelines in this direction.)

Placing vector graphics (EPS format) in the manner demonstrated in the video, while accompanied by the rather edgy visualization in Finale, proved to be robust in terms of avoiding the familiar problems described in John Ruggero's thread. In my humble opinion, the use of bitmap images in cases such as this brings significant quality disadvantages, especially if there are slurs or hairpins, because they are rendered in a stepped fashion in print. However, working with EPS in version 27.3 is not seamless, because the program stubbornly refuses to import EPS graphics, but if their extension is renamed to PDF (as was found more than a year ago), everything falls into place. However, in order to render the vector elements properly, the file must be routed to a virtual PS printer, saved in that same PS format, and then converted to PDF. Direct printing from Finale 27 to a PS-printer unfortunately doesn't work - I've already tried it.

In terms of the number of graphics the MUSX-file can take (using the method described in the video), I don't think there is a limit. Months ago I was arranging a piano reduction in which the graphic elements were in huge quantity, with over 30 on certain pages, and I bravely used the described method. Trying to be cautious in my assessments, I would say that everything went without any serious problems. I deliberately mention "serious" because once the graphics are placed in the score, the names of the EPS files and their location on disk should not be changed. Otherwise, the next time the finale file is opened, rectangles (with the name of the attached EPS file) are displayed at those locations and nothing more. The inconvenience of this method is that to achieve high precision it is necessary to do at least 1 or 2 (and sometimes 3) virtual tests with PS rendered (Acrobat Distiller or Mac OS Preview) as PDF. Otherwise, in terms of scaling into the finished PDF, everything seems smooth and as expected.
(For comparison: the original Finale page and a zoom of the percussion part in PDF)

[BuonTempi]

However, working with EPS in version 27.3 is not seamless, because the program stubbornly refuses to import EPS graphics, but if their extension is renamed to PDF (as was found more than a year ago), everything falls into place. However, in order to render the vector elements properly, the file must be routed to a virtual PS printer, saved in that same PS format, and then converted to PDF. Direct printing from Finale 27 to a PS-printer unfortunately doesn't work - I've already tried it.

As you may know, EPS support was removed in 27.0, both import and export.

As for EPS files not being printed as vector: this much David Cusick in 2020:

I have done some considerable research on this and the biggest problem that I have found with this is that Finale is taking a vector image and displaying this correctly in the program but, on export, it is rasterizing this. Which it should absolutely not do and certainly a problem. This started happening somewhere around 2011-2012 releases, but I do not know why.

The best work flow I can suggest in this situation, regardless if you are using EPS or PDF vector images, is to export and then use a third-party program to add the graphics. This is certainly not ideal at all, but until the issue is resolved at the code level, there is not a way around having Finale not rasterize the image.

I first raised the issue with Carla Hennes in 2008...!!

[Djard]

Let's hope the moguls at MakeMusic read this thread and address the issue. But I'm not going to hold my breath, since the Pause button in the playback palette has never been made to work.

[heinzfan]

"Pause" works if playback is set to "current counter measure."

[Djard]

To me, enabling all but the Pause button, except in Current counter setting seems a bit lame.

Thanks for the clarification.