Version 27.4 coming

[motet]

I've had no problem through 2014.5, but now it is a problem.

[ebiggs1]

... it is a real problem.

miker,
I never said it wasn't a problem just that it has never happened to me. The fact remains that most "bugs" or otherwise issues that people have with Finale is, they don't know how to use Finale or how it works. This only complicates the real "bugs". All I can say and/or go on is what I see using Finale almost daily for decades.

If I had to state my number one major complaint or bug it is how Finale handles the sound card and sound in general. It along with the absolutely atrocious Mixer needs a full make over. Take a look at the free Musescore's mixer and ability to save the file in numerous sound formats. Perhaps someone should send MM a copy of Musescore to check out. IMHO, as always.

[dtoub]

I think part of that (re: audio) has to do with Finale being a notation program. I want it to handle sound better but suspect the original design was all about notation (scratch that; I know that was the intent).

But I do think there are issues with Finale, many longstanding, and it seems dismissive to blame users (many of whom are very experienced and long-term like me). Perhaps some folks here are true masters of their domain and all things Finale and they have zero issues ever. But that strains credulity IMHO.

[ebiggs1]

My history with Finale (version 3+) did sound. It has always done MIDI sound as far as I can remember. In fact if I remember correctly it was touted as one of the greatest MIDI composition software there was.

Look all I can say, for me and what I do Finale 27.3 works just fine. As long as I can have a few add-ons and Plug-ins I am totally good with it. Although I know how to do certain things the plug-ins make it so much more easy and enjoyable to use. However, I stand firmly by most issues that folks have with Finale is a lack of knowing how to use it or how it works.

[motet]

I don't have any problem with how Finale handles the sound card and sound.

[smw_brighton]

The fact remains that most "bugs" or otherwise issues that people have with Finale is, they don't know how to use Finale or how it works.

I really wish you would stop repeating this whenever someone suggests there is a bug within Finale. On what criteria (other than it works for you) are you basing this theory?

Although I am very pleased that the software does everything you want it to without issues, this does not mean there are not bugs (some VERY long standing) which are totally unrelated to people's familiarity with how to use the program.

I have been a Finale user since 1998 as a professional composer/copyist and feel able to describe myself as an experienced user. However, a great deal of the learning curve over the last 25 years has been spent acquiring work-arounds for bugs which were reported to (and acknowledged by) MM but - several years later - are still awaiting a fix.

It will be very interesting to see whether any of these have been addressed in v27.4.

[BuonTempi]

However, I stand firmly by most issues that folks have with Finale is a lack of knowing how to use it or how it works.

Issues like... grace notes causing the screen to go blank?
The Times font offset issue?
Tuplet handles don't move properly in Page View?
The inability to print True Black?
Problems with Music spacing when layers cross?
Ties at the start of system not being drawn correctly?
Incorrect placement of augmentation dots on notes with flipped stems?
Collision of ties with pairs of seconds?
HP stopping working after deleting the first staff of a document?

These are just a fraction of the bugs acknowledged by MM. No doubt we will all have plenty of others. To say "there are no bugs, it's just user error" is silly, at best.

[dtoub]

…and annoyingly rude

[ebiggs1]

I never said there were not true bugs. We all know there are.

Some of you seem to get very upset if a person has a positive experience with Finale. Why is that?

[ebiggs1]

…and annoyingly rude

Easy fix, don't read them.

[ebiggs1]

I don't have any problem with how Finale handles the sound card and sound.

I don't have any sound issues either if I let Finale be King of the Hill and don't use other sound requiring apps.

[motet]

Some of you seem to get very upset if a person has a positive experience with Finale. Why is that?

I don't see anyone very upset, and I don't think the annoyance that many of us feel is because you have a positive experience with Finale. The vast majority of people are here to get and give help.

If someone complains about Finale and you can see that it's "a lack of knowing how to use it or how it works," then you can help them by pointing them in the right direction. But if you just say, "What are you talking about? It works fine for me," that contributes nothing and just adds noise.

I think the annoyance comes when someone is looking for help with a problem and they hear, "No, everything's great." If someone asks, "In anyone else having an issue with...?", "No, I'm not" is not very helpful.

Could you maybe try asking yourself, "Will my posting help solve this person's problem" before you click the Submit button, and if the answer is no, refrain from doing so? Then when you really are able to help, people will appreciate your experience with Finale more.

[ebiggs1]

The fact I remark Finale does what I want and runs very well is in fact helpful. It confirms that it is possible to have success with Finale. If you and certain others weren't so negative you may be able to see that. There is nothing special about me or my PC so if it works for me it will work for anybody. That is the totality of my reply. Your choice to accept it or reject it.

[dtoub]

The fact I remark Finale does what I want and runs very well is in fact helpful. It confirms that it is possible to have success with Finale. If you and certain others weren't so negative you may be able to see that. There is nothing special about me or my PC so if it works for me it will work for anybody. That is the totality of my reply. Your choice to accept it or reject it.

Maybe you might consider posting your stuff on MakeMusic's blog, since the blog is for marketing purposes and to make people feel happy-crappy about Finale. Finale obviously works for most of us otherwise we wouldn't be foolish enough to use it. But the purpose of this forum, I suspect, is not to hear success stories but to help users (including every one of us-we're all users) deal with issues. Users helping users. It's a beautiful thing.

In a few isolated circumstances, where something is reported as not working, it can be useful to know that a problem is isolated to the original poster. My issue, and I suspect this is true for many of us, is the tone and general air of condescension in some of these posts. To echo an earlier post, if a response is not going to really contribute much of anything, think twice about posting. If you have a solution, by all means, post. I have been a multi-decade user of Finale and as with all software, there are nice things and things that could be done so much better. I want Finale to be better, but would never say it's nearly flawless or works perfectly. It isn't flawless, and has many long-standing bugs and UX issues. I'd love for MM to overhaul the code and design, but suspect that isn't in the cards anytime soon.

[ebiggs1]

I have been a multi-decade user of Finale

So is everybody! I would hate to live in a such a negative world.


It is ......

Your choice to accept it or reject it.

[motet]

There is nothing special about me or my PC so if it works for me it will work for anybody.

Therein likes your ignorance, I think. On the contrary, every user is different, as is every PC or Mac. I seem to recall that you write for band. Others write for orchestra, or piano on a grand staff, or chorus, or they may write lead sheets, or contemporary music with alternate notation, maybe cut-away staves or quarter-tone accidentals. Some users write lyrics, or chords, or tablature. Some people enter music with a MIDI keyboard using Hyperscribe or with step-time, others use QWERTY entry or a mouse. Some people use multiple layers or Voice 2. Some people need to manually tweak spacing with beat charts or the Note Position tool. There's Simple entry and Speedy entry. Some people use Note Performer, or have purchased add-on Garritan libraries. Or are using fonts that you may not need for a special need. There's a whole wealth of plug-ins that people may or may not use. The PC and Macintosh platforms are very different, and each his its own set of issues.

It's great the Finale works well for you. Others are not so lucky, and have every right to complain when things don't work as advertised. Some are beginners who, as you put it, don't know how to use Finale or don't know how it works. In my experience, most of them ask for help rather than complain; we're here to help them rather than tell them they're ignorant or wrong. Others of us have been using Finale daily to make a living and are justifiably frustrated when problems don't get fixed. It's useful to hear from such folks who might be having the same problems and might have work-arounds.

Hearing "Finale works fine for me, so it should for you" when one is frustrated is less useful.

[miker]

Gentlebeings, can we let this rest, please?

[ebiggs1]

Yes sir, I am for that but as a Moderator let me ask a question, is the forum just for the negative users? And some time rude negative users. Or is it a place where both side are allowed?

[miker]

<Moderator hat on>

There is certainly room on the forum for both sides of a disagreement. The problem arises when those disagreements devolve into circular arguments and name calling. That’s when I feel it necessary to step in, and ask for a cessation of hostilities. I try to do that without calling out either side, or any individuals. I like to think that the forum is primarily a gathering of like-minded individuals, wanting to help each other and any visitors who might stumble across us.

So, can we please try to get along?

<Moderator hat off>