TRUMPET Low F# Not Sounding--Gb Too

[Billy May]

Was hoping someone who remembers Finale 2012 or who is still using it like I am (because I've had it with v27) can help. All of a sudden there is no more trumpet low F# sound. I have the difficulty thing set to advanced, not that that should matter.

Thank you.

[motet]

Both Bb and C trumpets play their written F#s for me with the Garritan sounds, though the Bb trumpet is very, very faint (the C trumpet is not). If I try to switch to switch to MIDI output the program hangs. What a dog's breakfast Finale is!

If you're using the C trumpet instrument but are using B-flat transposition, that might not work since a C trumpet can't play down to a concert E (I don't know if that's true of the Garritan version, though).

[Billy May]

Thank you. I should've indicated, Bb trumpet.

I was wondering, as you mention transposition. So there is a setting to make the Bb trumpet not transposed, or, as a trumpeter would hear the note while playing?

[motet]

If you create your file with the set-up wizard, it will set up a B-flat trumpet staff correctly. If you want to display it in concert pitch, on the Document menu check Display in Concert Pitch. This doesn't answer the question of why you're not hearing the F#, though.

[Billy May]

Thanks again. I didn't describe this accurately. When I enter a note, I hear it transposed. I play trumpet and would like to hear the note as I would when playing it.

[motet]

On the MIDI/Audio menu, Device Setup, MIDI Thru, set it to "Smart."

[Billy May]

On the MIDI/Audio menu, Device Setup, MIDI Thru, set it to "Smart."

Hello again and thank you. I see it was already set to "smart."

[motet]

Works for me.

[Billy May]

Maybe because I'm playing through VST?

[motet]

Windows, VST. If I enter a C I hear a concert B-flat.

[Billy May]

Windows, VST. If I enter a C I hear a concert B-flat.

Not me. I hear concert D when entering a C. Always has been that way. Hard to deal with that now as my perfect pitch has deteriorated to relative pitch.

[motet]

Are you using Display in Concert Pitch in the Document menu? In that case, if you entered a written C, you'd hear a trumpet D.

[Billy May]

Are you using Display in Concert Pitch in the Document menu? In that case, if you entered a written C, you'd hear a trumpet D.

No, I don't use "Display...Concert..." It just seems to me I once opened a project and for some reason the notes entered as the actual pitch I would hear playing trumpet.

[motet]

Playing the trumpet pitch when entering instead of the written pitch as if it was the concert pitch is a relatively new feature. Version 27 has it and version 2014.5 does not. Please check what you're hearing against a piano or your physical trumpet to be sure. Hearing a D when you enter a C makes no sense.

[Billy May]

ok, finale 2012 doesn't have that. but guess what? the other day i did a clean install of windows. i forget that windows chooses 48,000 Hz. so i went back to my usual 44,100 Hz, and all the notes is playing.

thank you for you time and help. i learnt much!

[oldmkvi]

That's awfully low for a Bb Tpt.
To me that's Trombone territory.
Many Big Band Tpt Players can't really play much below the staff!
I think it would sound mushy to write the Tpts so low.
YMMV.

[Billy May]

That's awfully low for a Bb Tpt.
To me that's Trombone territory.
Many Big Band Tpt Players can't really play much below the staff!
I think it would sound mushy to write the Tpts so low.
YMMV.

Not sure what you're referring to. When played fat and open, the low notes have an ominous but beautiful ring. besides, this is a solo. from day one back in '63 i've always tried to master the full range of the horn and to highlight the different colors of the entire range. if other trumpeters are happy with half-ass range, good for them.

[David Ward]

That's awfully low for a Bb Tpt.
To me that's Trombone territory.
Many Big Band Tpt Players can't really play much below the staff!
I think it would sound mushy to write the Tpts so low.
YMMV.

In my experience many players in professional symphony or opera orchestras may often use rather large mouthpieces with large throats and backbores, and as a result they can usually manage this low range with gusto. On the other hand, they may tend to use smaller instruments than specified in the score for parts with a high lying tessitura or extreme high range.

[oldmkvi]

Very true David.
I think Billy May is more into Big Band than Classical, but I don't know ...

My experience with Orchestral Players is that,
even if you write for Bb Tpt, they play it on C Tpt.
Only getting a note out of range, would they switch to Bb.
There's a Stravinsky Score we played in the SF Ballet, not sure which piece,
but Stravinsky actually made an Orchestration mistake, writing too low for C tpt.
The player played that note ( passage ) on Bb!
Other than that, Fugeddaboudit!

[oldmkvi]

Hi Billy,
I'm referring to voicing chords low in the Trumpet Section.
Solo playing should certainly feature the entire range of the Inst, as you say.
Never saw Thad Jones write for Tpt more than one or two ledger lines below the staff.

[ebiggs1]

... write for Tpt more than one or two ledger lines below the staff.

Middle C or an A ? Common notes for trumpet.

[oldmkvi]

Right, that's what I said.
Lower than that I wouldn't write for a Big Band section.
But Billy referring to Solo playing encompassing the entire lower range, which is admirable!
Rimsky Korsakov has a famous orchestration book,
where he lists the Full Ranges of all the various Instruments.
But he also narrowed it down a bit to the "Most Expressive" Range, where it will most always sound good.
Billy Byers had a technique where he doubled the Tpts in thirds, 2 on each part,
when it got down to the bottom of the staff.
They were doubled by the Altos, and it always sounded so good!
Again, Big Band stuff.
YMMV.

[Billy May]

Very true David.
I think Billy May is more into Big Band than Classical, but I don't know ...

My experience with Orchestral Players is that,
even if you write for Bb Tpt, they play it on C Tpt.
Only getting a note out of range, would they switch to Bb.
There's a Stravinsky Score we played in the SF Ballet, not sure which piece,
but Stravinsky actually made an Orchestration mistake, writing too low for C tpt.
The player played that note ( passage ) on Bb!
Other than that, Fugeddaboudit!

Yes, Billy May was known best for big band scoring, like on Sinatra records such as Come Dance with Me, Sinatra's all time best seller.

[ebiggs1]

...Lower than that I wouldn't write for a Big Band section.

Wow, jazz charts routinely have a trumpet part with two ledger line A, B above it and middle C. At least all the ones I have seen or played.

[motet]

Any self-respecting trumpeter will be able to play down to F# easily, but it's true that register lacks power and won't necessarily sound good in ensemble writing.