Page format - score

[Brent]

I've finished arranging a chart and am trying to create a quick conductor's score. The first two pages are correct in landscape mode but from page 3 on it's in portrait mode and I can't seem to effect any change through the page format page.

What am I missing?

Thanks for any help and suggestions you can provide.

[motet]

After changing the page format you need to go to the Page Layout tool and do "Redefine Pages."

[Brent]

Thanks for your reply. I've already formatted the parts, so if I redefine the score format will that affect my part formats?

[motet]

One of the choices is "all pages of current part/score," so as long as you do it from the score you should be OK. Check to make sure before saving, though!

[Brent]

Thanks again. I’ve been a Finale user for thirty years and this problem has vexed me for all of those years. The first couple of pages appear in landscape mode and the rest in portrait mode in a different sized font. I wish I knew the way to avoid this frustrating regular occurrence. Obviously my settings are incorrect but as much as I try to remedy it I haven’t found the magic combination.

[motet]

That can happen if you change the page layout with the Page Format tool on your existing pages but don't reflect the changes in Document/Page Format. When new pages are created as you add music, it uses the latter settings rather than continuing the format of the existing pages. If you're starting a new piece by editing an old one or by using a template you've created, if you correct that in those files you should be OK from here on out.

[Peter Thomsen]

… I’ve been a Finale user for thirty years and this problem has vexed me for all of those years. The first couple of pages appear in landscape mode and the rest in portrait mode in a different sized font …

A wild guess:

The {landscape} layout on the “first couple of pages” was customized manually, with the Page Layout Tool - right?

And the following pages - in portrait layout - were created as needed when more measures were added to the document - right?

My guess is that the culprit is the document’s default formatting for new pages/systems.

To examine/edit the default formatting for new pages/systems, go here:
Document menu > Page Format > Score…

Examine the settings carefully, and correct them, so that they are as needed (landscape orientation &c.).
From now on, all new pages/systems will be formatted as needed.

[Brent]

Thanks I’ll give it a shot in the morning, but I’ve tried to sort this forever and I get the same results. It’s time I get it right…

[Peter Thomsen]

NB:
The default formatting is document specific, not program specific.
It is possible to have different default formatting in different documents.
This is by design, and what users have requested.
To get the desired formatting in all new documents, use a custom template.

[Brent]

I've checked the page>format>score but nowhere is there a function to set all pages in that format. I've been through that menu a hundred times and thought I was double-checking the landscape format, but it only affects the first two pages and the first four systems of the score. I've had to do it manually. For my current score I got some success by using Page Layout>Re-sizing Staff Systems (system reduction) and then the subsequent pages magically turned to landscape. However, the actually staves weren't spaced correctly and I had to do that manually system by system. Also, the margins on pages 3-5 weren't correct so the global settings in Page Format>Score had no impact on these subsequent pages.

[BuonTempi]

Finale's Page Layout workflow is a classic example of exactly what's wrong with its user interface. Pretty much every single other app in the world that uses pages -- be it notation, or DTP, or whatever -- has a Page Format dialog, and when you press OK, the entire document is set to those values.

Sure, advanced apps will have ways of changing the margins at any given point -- or even the page size. But the overwhelming majority of documents are going to have one page size and one set of margins throughout. (Yes, one for score; one for parts).

Having a Page Format that does ... nothing ... when you press OK is just bizarre. At the very least, the Page Format dialog should have a "Redefine Pages" button on it.

Ideally, the Page Format dialog should set the whole document, and then if you want to make changes, you use the Page Layout menu to add alterations, shown by an icon in the page corner. You'd need a reset function to remove the changes.

As it is, the flexibility of the unlikely comes at the cost of the ordinary.

There were plans to completely overhaul Page Layout just after F2012, but they never achieved fruit, possibly because of the acquisition and move.

[Brent]

Hmmm.....so it isn't just me. Thank you for that information.

[Peter Thomsen]

I've checked the page>format>score but nowhere is there a function to set all pages in that format. I've been through that menu a hundred times and thought I was double-checking the landscape format, but it only affects the first two pages and the first four systems of the score. I've had to do it manually. For my current score I got some success by using Page Layout>Re-sizing Staff Systems (system reduction) and then the subsequent pages magically turned to landscape. However, the actually staves weren't spaced correctly and I had to do that manually system by system. Also, the margins on pages 3-5 weren't correct so the global settings in Page Format>Score had no impact on these subsequent pages.

After changing the page format you need to go to the Page Layout tool and do "Redefine Pages."

[Brent]

I did that which resulted in no change.

[motet]

I suspect you're doing something wrong.

You might find it helpful to watch this video:

https://www.conqueringfinale.com/perfecting-page-layout

[michelp]

Especially at 7:21.

[Brent]

Wow. Thank you for that link. It not only shows me the correct way forward, but it also reinforces the ambiguity of these two functions. Even the person producing that video seems to agree that the page format and page layout functions are less than intuitive. Now, at least, know why I've been chasing my tail all of these years.

Thank you all for taking time to point out the ins and outs of these settings.

[ebiggs1]

Brent,
I don't know if you use plug-ins and scripts but there is a RPG Lus script that puts most all page settings on one place. Page Format Wizard.

[ebiggs1]

Oh, BTW, you can find it and other helpful and some not so helpful script plug-ins here. https://www.finalelua.com/scripts

[Brent]

How do you download a luafile? I've never seen one of those. Once it's downloaded how does Finale find it?

[motet]

Instructions at finalelua.com

[Brent]

As always, thank you for your time and support.

[ebiggs1]

These scripts can be called up with a keystroke command if you want to