Microtonal notation
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
hi
I would really like to be able to insert microtonal sharps and flats easily. I've tried to download andrian partout microtonal font (TT) but then i lost all normal signs in my finale 2009 (MacOSX10.62). I dont know wheather i should have taken the TT or PS, or if its gonna work at all, and I don't know how to mix fonts?
If anyone knows anything about how to do this i would be pleased to see some descriptions on how to achieve microtonal notation.
I would really like to be able to insert microtonal sharps and flats easily. I've tried to download andrian partout microtonal font (TT) but then i lost all normal signs in my finale 2009 (MacOSX10.62). I dont know wheather i should have taken the TT or PS, or if its gonna work at all, and I don't know how to mix fonts?
If anyone knows anything about how to do this i would be pleased to see some descriptions on how to achieve microtonal notation.
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6604
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
Layout or playback (or both)?
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6604
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
Take a look at the attached files.
They show/explain how to create a key signature with quartertones.
The .mus document doesn't play back correctly, but you tell that you are only interested in layout, not playback.
They show/explain how to create a key signature with quartertones.
The .mus document doesn't play back correctly, but you tell that you are only interested in layout, not playback.
- Attachments
-
- Step by step instructions.zip
- (1.76 KiB) Downloaded 916 times
-
- Quarter-toneKeySign2009.mus.zip
- (32.44 KiB) Downloaded 983 times
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
HI I followed those instructions but still dont get how to make the keys that I need for Middle Eastern Music.
I need a key signature with
Bb, Eb, and A(half) flat
I need a key sig with
Bb and E(half) flat.
I need a key sig with
E B and A all as half flats.
I need a key sig with
Bb, Eb, F#
finale 2010
how do I do it?
Would be great if it could even play back with the quater tones, but at least for it to appear correctly would be a start.
I need a key signature with
Bb, Eb, and A(half) flat
I need a key sig with
Bb and E(half) flat.
I need a key sig with
E B and A all as half flats.
I need a key sig with
Bb, Eb, F#
finale 2010
how do I do it?
Would be great if it could even play back with the quater tones, but at least for it to appear correctly would be a start.
thanks
the ud dude
the ud dude
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6604
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
ud dude,
1) You could use Finale's Key Signature Tool to set up a quartertone key signature.
See the attached files (in Finale 2010 format).
The 3 key signatures are all created from the same quartertone key signature, by changing the "Amount" for the first flats from -1 (quarterstep flat) to -2 (halfstep flat).
This is done in the dialog box Accidental Order and Amount.
The quartertone key signatures will play back correctly when sent through an external hardware MIDI playback module that is capable of dividing the octave into 24 MIDI quartersteps.
The quartertone key signature won't play back correctly with the internal softsynth, since the softsynth is created for an octave division of 12 MIDI halfsteps.
Therefore, all intervals will play back in double size:
A quarterstep (= 1 quarterstep) will play back as a halfstep (= 1 halfstep), a halfstep (= 2 quartersteps) will play back as a wholestep (= 2 halfsteps), a 3-quarterstep (= 3 quartersteps) will play back as a minor third (= 3 halfsteps) &c.
2) However, quartertone playback with internal softsynth IS possible.
To get quartertone playback with the softsynth you use a standard (12 MIDI halfsteps) key signature, and use expressions with the playback effect "Pitchwheel" to "bend" the pitches a quartertone up/down.
It's a lot of work, since you have to "bend" the pitch a quartertone - and back to normal - for every instance of a quartertone in the music.
5 years ago Finale user Ward Baxter wrote an article about quartertone playback with internal softsynth.
If you are intersted in Ward Baxters article, let me know.
3) Your last key signature example - Bb, Eb, F# - isn't a quartertone key signature, but rather a non-standard halftone key signature.
It can be created in the same way as the previous key signatures, either from a quartertone key signature (in case you need note accidentals with quartertones), or from a halftone key signature (in case you only need note accidentals with halftones).
If you need further instructions, let me know.
1) You could use Finale's Key Signature Tool to set up a quartertone key signature.
See the attached files (in Finale 2010 format).
The 3 key signatures are all created from the same quartertone key signature, by changing the "Amount" for the first flats from -1 (quarterstep flat) to -2 (halfstep flat).
This is done in the dialog box Accidental Order and Amount.
The quartertone key signatures will play back correctly when sent through an external hardware MIDI playback module that is capable of dividing the octave into 24 MIDI quartersteps.
The quartertone key signature won't play back correctly with the internal softsynth, since the softsynth is created for an octave division of 12 MIDI halfsteps.
Therefore, all intervals will play back in double size:
A quarterstep (= 1 quarterstep) will play back as a halfstep (= 1 halfstep), a halfstep (= 2 quartersteps) will play back as a wholestep (= 2 halfsteps), a 3-quarterstep (= 3 quartersteps) will play back as a minor third (= 3 halfsteps) &c.
2) However, quartertone playback with internal softsynth IS possible.
To get quartertone playback with the softsynth you use a standard (12 MIDI halfsteps) key signature, and use expressions with the playback effect "Pitchwheel" to "bend" the pitches a quartertone up/down.
It's a lot of work, since you have to "bend" the pitch a quartertone - and back to normal - for every instance of a quartertone in the music.
5 years ago Finale user Ward Baxter wrote an article about quartertone playback with internal softsynth.
If you are intersted in Ward Baxters article, let me know.
3) Your last key signature example - Bb, Eb, F# - isn't a quartertone key signature, but rather a non-standard halftone key signature.
It can be created in the same way as the previous key signatures, either from a quartertone key signature (in case you need note accidentals with quartertones), or from a halftone key signature (in case you only need note accidentals with halftones).
If you need further instructions, let me know.
- Attachments
-
- Bb and E(half).mus.zip
- (30.11 KiB) Downloaded 430 times
-
- Bb, Eb and A(half)b.mus.zip
- (30.15 KiB) Downloaded 320 times
-
- E(half), B(half) and A(half).mus.zip
- (30.18 KiB) Downloaded 404 times
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
Hei Peter, thanks for the nice advises, but i'm still struggling, I want to be able to easily insert quarter tone defaults. Quarter tone key signature is not that convenient for me. I've been looking up and down manuals and forum with no luck, would you happen to have the lovely recipe for defaults as well? (finale 2009)
Of course if playback is possible that would be interesting, but layout is the main issue.
I'd much appreciate help.
Of course if playback is possible that would be interesting, but layout is the main issue.
I'd much appreciate help.
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6604
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
I'm not sure I understand.pppangi wrote:...I want to be able to easily insert quarter tone defaults. Quarter tone key signature is not that convenient for me...
With a quartertone key signature you can easily insert quartertone defaults.
You tell that a quartertone key signature is "not that convenient" for you.
What's the "inconvenience" for you with a quartertone key signature?
Would you prefer a traditional halftone key signature where you occasionally (seldom!) insert a quartertone accidental?
Please explain.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
I only want defaults, (defaults might be the wrong term, but i mean to be able to insert quarter tone accidentals where i want.) I don't want to have a key signature at all. But maybe the good solution is to set up a quarter tone key signature and then hide it?
An other problem, when i set up the quarter tone key as prescribed, i was not able to use speedy entry to enter the quarter tone defaults. How do I do this?
If there is a manual i could read i would be happy to, just haven't found one.
An other problem, when i set up the quarter tone key as prescribed, i was not able to use speedy entry to enter the quarter tone defaults. How do I do this?
If there is a manual i could read i would be happy to, just haven't found one.
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6604
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
There's no need to hide the quartertone "key signature system".pppangi wrote:I only want defaults, (defaults might be the wrong term, but i mean to be able to insert quarter tone accidentals where i want.) I don't want to have a key signature at all. But maybe the good solution is to set up a quarter tone key signature and then hide it?...
When you have created the quartertone "key signature system", just choose the quartertone key signature of "no flats / no sharps" (similar to the key signature of C major in a traditional halftone "key signature system").
If you want to use the Speedy Entry Tool (rather than the Simple Entry Tool) to enter the notes, consider using the computer keyboard (rather than a MIDI keyboard).pppangi wrote:...An other problem, when i set up the quarter tone key as prescribed, i was not able to use speedy entry to enter the quarter tone defaults. How do I do this?...
When you have entered a note, you can "flatten" it with the - key, and "sharpen" it with the + key.
You can "flatten" and "sharpen" notes the document I posted.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996