Page 1 of 1
Play second time only for repeats
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:08 am
by jerof
I am unaware if there is a tool in Finale that allows a stave to only play it's notes only on the second time through a repeat section.
Is this an option? I didn't find it in the expressions list.
Perhaps if it isn't then it would be a good future tool in the next generation Finale.
Thanks for your input!
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:16 pm
by michelp
It is available. Create an expression, and via the Playback button, select Type->Key velocity or controller->volume, then in "set to value", enter 0 and select "Play only on Pass" : 1.
Make sure you use an expression created in a category which gets applied to 1 staff, not all.
Play second time only for repeats
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:42 pm
by Peter Thomsen
Just in case you can't make it work with neither Volume nor Velocity:
This info was given to me by Robert Piechaud (the "Human Playback" developer):
Use Controller 11, not volume nor velocity.
Create an expression for 1st time through, something like: "Tacet 1. x"
In the Playback chiclet, set Controller 11 to zero, and set the text's font style to "Hidden".
Fill in the correct number in the "Play Only on Pass..." input box.
You'll will see this option under the Playback chiclet when you are creating your expression.
For 2. x, create an expression like, "Play 2. x only."
Don't hide this text, and set the playback to Controller 11 = 127.
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:26 pm
by jerof
Thanks guys!
Re: Play second time only for repeats
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:49 pm
by thirdvalve
I'm stumped here. The instructions indicate that one is supposed to "return to the playback tab". Or the "playback button".
Where is this to be found?
After entering the "2nd Timy Only" expression, I am unable to locate anything in the menu system called "playback" except the playback controls. And there are no options or anything to do with specifying "Type", etc.
Are these instructions for a different version of Finale?
Thanks,
- da
Re: Play second time only for repeats
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:01 pm
by miker
Those options are found on the Create Expressions dialogue box. At the bottom of the Dialogue box, there is a button Create Expression. In the next screen, you will see the tab for Playback.
Note: This is in the full Finale only. PrintMusic and the others won't give you this choice.
Re: Play second time only for repeats
Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:00 pm
by jazzape61
I have tried all of the above methods and the repeated part still plays 2x. I am using Finale 2017 on a Mac. What am I doing wrong????
Re: Play second time only for repeats
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 6:30 am
by Peter Thomsen
jazzape61 wrote:I have tried all of the above methods and the repeated part still plays 2x …
We need more info.
1) Take a look in the MIDI/Audio menu.
There are two options for playback device:
either
"Play Finale Through MIDI”
or
"Play Finale Through Audio Units”
Which one are you using?
2) Also, you can attach a (small) Finale sample document here, for the gurus to examine.
Re: Play second time only for repeats
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:22 pm
by Skjalg
The most reliable solution is to use (hidden) expressions to switch MIDI channel: Tacet 1. X [play on pass 1, switch to a unassigned channel, i.e. 125 or something]. —— «Play second time» can be a hidden expression [play on pass 2, switch back to the original MIDI channel].
Not my idea; one of many, many tips from Zuill.
Re: Play second time only for repeats
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:05 pm
by Peter Thomsen
Skjalg wrote:The most reliable solution is to use (hidden) expressions to switch MIDI channel: Tacet 1. X [play on pass 1, switch to a unassigned channel, i.e. 125 or something]. —— «Play second time» can be a hidden expression [play on pass 2, switch back to the original MIDI channel].
Not my idea; one of many, many tips from Zuill.
That is the solution for "Play Finale Through Audio Units”.
We do not (yet) know what Playback Device jazzape61 is using.
Re: Play second time only for repeats
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:42 pm
by jazzape61
The attachment quota has been reached, I am unable to include an attachment. I am using a USB powered MIDI keyboard. Would this be what it is playing back through? I am a bit confused by MIDI in general, but know enough to be able to use my keyboard to create a Finale document.
Re: Play second time only for repeats
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:43 pm
by jazzape61
I am using Play Finale through Audio Units.
Re: Play second time only for repeats
Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:47 pm
by jazzape61
[quote="Skjalg"]The most reliable solution is to use (hidden) expressions to switch MIDI channel: Tacet 1. X [play on pass 1, switch to a unassigned channel, i.e. 125 or something]. —— «Play second time» can be a hidden expression [play on pass 2, switch back to the original MIDI channel].
Can you provide step by step instructions on this?
Re: Play second time only for repeats
Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:42 am
by Chris McRae
Hello!
I was working on an orchestra score and I came across this thread attempting to solve the same issue.
What worked for me was to create an expression as such.
Name: Trio - Play 2x only
Under the playback tab (at the top of the pop-out expressions window) I selected "Controller" in the drop-down menu and 7 for the "Volume" value. Below that I put 0 as the value for the effects and "Play only on pass" 1, thereby muting the track for the first repeat and playing it for the second as I intended.
Hope this helps!
-Chris
Re: Play second time only for repeats
Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:54 pm
by jazzape61
I am still unable to make this work. I have followed all the instructions in the above comments and nothing seems to work.
Re: Play second time only for repeats
Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:08 pm
by jazzape61
What happened is that it muted for both times.
Re: Play second time only for repeats
Posted: Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:53 pm
by HaraldS
Setting and re-setting the MIDI channel has the disadvantage that while resetting, you're assuming a specific MIDI channel. Thus, such an expression can only be used in one instrument in the score - or, you have to create multiple "play 2nd time only"s, each one resetting the MIDI channel to the correct inidividual channel. Not good.
Using MIDI CC07 or CC11 data has the (probably neglectable) disadvantage that MIDI note data gets sent anyway and thus costs polyphony.
Instead, better create:
- one invisible expression which is only played on pass 1 which sets transpose to 127: "tacet 1st time"
- another visible expression which is played on pass 2 and sets transpose to 0: "play 2nd time only"
This will not play on pass 1, but on pass 2. I tested with "Play through MIDI" as well as with "Play through VST".
You can use these expression anywhere in the score, as the MIDI channel is not affected. I ran Finale's MIDI output through MIDIOX to see what was being sent at all: my Finale 25 did not even send MIDI data on pass 1 (and thus did not cost polyphony on the sound generating device/software).
The latter fact surprised me, as I would have expected to get arbitrary high notes, which was not the case.
Re: Play second time only for repeats
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 3:41 pm
by ebiggs1
The great thing about Finale is, if you can figure out a way, it can do almost anything. Tough part is that knowing how to tell it how or what to do. In this case I have found in so many ways a separate sound file is the best easiest way to do what you want. Just write it out as you want to hear it.
I find this two seperate file procedure so much easier and better that I now create three files. One for score, one for sound and one for printing.
Re: Play second time only for repeats
Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:15 pm
by michelp
jazzape61 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:08 pm
What happened is that it muted for both times.
You will need a second expression, which restores the playback the 2nd x.
Re: Play second time only for repeats
Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:04 pm
by TomMattaBigBand
HaraldS wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:53 pm
Instead, better create:
- one invisible expression which is only played on pass 1 which sets transpose to 127: "tacet 1st time"
- another visible expression which is played on pass 2 and sets transpose to 0: "play 2nd time only"
This will not play on pass 1, but on pass 2. I tested with "Play through MIDI" as well as with "Play through VST".
You can use these expression anywhere in the score, as the MIDI channel is not affected. I ran Finale's MIDI output through MIDIOX to see what was being sent at all: my Finale 25 did not even send MIDI data on pass 1 (and thus did not cost polyphony on the sound generating device/software).
This helped me out - I’m using “Play thru Audio Units” btw….
Re: Play second time only for repeats
Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:47 am
by TomMattaBigBand
TomMattaBigBand wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:04 pm
HaraldS wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:53 pm
Instead, better create:
- one invisible expression which is only played on pass 1 which sets transpose to 127: "tacet 1st time"
- another visible expression which is played on pass 2 and sets transpose to 0: "play 2nd time only"
This will not play on pass 1, but on pass 2. I tested with "Play through MIDI" as well as with "Play through VST".
You can use these expression anywhere in the score, as the MIDI channel is not affected. I ran Finale's MIDI output through MIDIOX to see what was being sent at all: my Finale 25 did not even send MIDI data on pass 1 (and thus did not cost polyphony on the sound generating device/software).
This helped me out - I’m using “Play thru Audio Units” btw….
THANK YOU!
Re: Play second time only for repeats
Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:01 pm
by RickTrombone
HaraldS wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:53 pm
Setting and re-setting the MIDI channel has the disadvantage that while resetting, you're assuming a specific MIDI channel. Thus, such an expression can only be used in one instrument in the score - or, you have to create multiple "play 2nd time only"s, each one resetting the MIDI channel to the correct inidividual channel. Not good.
Using MIDI CC07 or CC11 data has the (probably neglectable) disadvantage that MIDI note data gets sent anyway and thus costs polyphony.
Instead, better create:
- one invisible expression which is only played on pass 1 which sets transpose to 127: "tacet 1st time"
- another visible expression which is played on pass 2 and sets transpose to 0: "play 2nd time only"
This will not play on pass 1, but on pass 2. I tested with "Play through MIDI" as well as with "Play through VST".
You can use these expression anywhere in the score, as the MIDI channel is not affected. I ran Finale's MIDI output through MIDIOX to see what was being sent at all: my Finale 25 did not even send MIDI data on pass 1 (and thus did not cost polyphony on the sound generating device/software).
The latter fact surprised me, as I would have expected to get arbitrary high notes, which was not the case.
This worked perfectly for me. For years my solution was to copy the passage to eliminate the repeat.
Re: Play second time only for repeats
Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:10 pm
by HaraldS
You're welcome.
Greetings from Germany.