Play second time only for repeats
Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker
I am unaware if there is a tool in Finale that allows a stave to only play it's notes only on the second time through a repeat section.
Is this an option? I didn't find it in the expressions list.
Perhaps if it isn't then it would be a good future tool in the next generation Finale.
Thanks for your input!
Is this an option? I didn't find it in the expressions list.
Perhaps if it isn't then it would be a good future tool in the next generation Finale.
Thanks for your input!
- michelp
- Posts: 2066
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 3:35 pm
- Finale Version: 27.4.1,26.3.1, Mont.
- Operating System: Mac
It is available. Create an expression, and via the Playback button, select Type->Key velocity or controller->volume, then in "set to value", enter 0 and select "Play only on Pass" : 1.
Make sure you use an expression created in a category which gets applied to 1 staff, not all.
Make sure you use an expression created in a category which gets applied to 1 staff, not all.
Michel
MacOsX 12.7.5, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua
MacOsX 12.7.5, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6650
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
Just in case you can't make it work with neither Volume nor Velocity:
This info was given to me by Robert Piechaud (the "Human Playback" developer):
Use Controller 11, not volume nor velocity.
Create an expression for 1st time through, something like: "Tacet 1. x"
In the Playback chiclet, set Controller 11 to zero, and set the text's font style to "Hidden".
Fill in the correct number in the "Play Only on Pass..." input box.
You'll will see this option under the Playback chiclet when you are creating your expression.
For 2. x, create an expression like, "Play 2. x only."
Don't hide this text, and set the playback to Controller 11 = 127.
This info was given to me by Robert Piechaud (the "Human Playback" developer):
Use Controller 11, not volume nor velocity.
Create an expression for 1st time through, something like: "Tacet 1. x"
In the Playback chiclet, set Controller 11 to zero, and set the text's font style to "Hidden".
Fill in the correct number in the "Play Only on Pass..." input box.
You'll will see this option under the Playback chiclet when you are creating your expression.
For 2. x, create an expression like, "Play 2. x only."
Don't hide this text, and set the playback to Controller 11 = 127.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
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- Posts: 1
- Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:44 pm
- Finale Version: PrintMusic 2011
I'm stumped here. The instructions indicate that one is supposed to "return to the playback tab". Or the "playback button".
Where is this to be found?
After entering the "2nd Timy Only" expression, I am unable to locate anything in the menu system called "playback" except the playback controls. And there are no options or anything to do with specifying "Type", etc.
Are these instructions for a different version of Finale?
Thanks,
- da
Where is this to be found?
After entering the "2nd Timy Only" expression, I am unable to locate anything in the menu system called "playback" except the playback controls. And there are no options or anything to do with specifying "Type", etc.
Are these instructions for a different version of Finale?
Thanks,
- da
- miker
- Posts: 6040
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:28 pm
- Finale Version: Finale 27.4
- Operating System: Mac
Those options are found on the Create Expressions dialogue box. At the bottom of the Dialogue box, there is a button Create Expression. In the next screen, you will see the tab for Playback.
Note: This is in the full Finale only. PrintMusic and the others won't give you this choice.
Note: This is in the full Finale only. PrintMusic and the others won't give you this choice.
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Finale 27 | SmartScorePro 64
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
Mac OS 13.2.1 Ventura
Copyist for Barbershop Harmony Society
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6650
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
We need more info.jazzape61 wrote:I have tried all of the above methods and the repeated part still plays 2x …
1) Take a look in the MIDI/Audio menu.
There are two options for playback device:
either
"Play Finale Through MIDI”
or
"Play Finale Through Audio Units”
Which one are you using?
2) Also, you can attach a (small) Finale sample document here, for the gurus to examine.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
The most reliable solution is to use (hidden) expressions to switch MIDI channel: Tacet 1. X [play on pass 1, switch to a unassigned channel, i.e. 125 or something]. —— «Play second time» can be a hidden expression [play on pass 2, switch back to the original MIDI channel].
Not my idea; one of many, many tips from Zuill.
Not my idea; one of many, many tips from Zuill.
Finale26
Mac High Sierra
Finale user since 1995
Mac High Sierra
Finale user since 1995
- Peter Thomsen
- Posts: 6650
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:47 pm
- Finale Version: Finale v27.4
- Operating System: Mac
That is the solution for "Play Finale Through Audio Units”.Skjalg wrote:The most reliable solution is to use (hidden) expressions to switch MIDI channel: Tacet 1. X [play on pass 1, switch to a unassigned channel, i.e. 125 or something]. —— «Play second time» can be a hidden expression [play on pass 2, switch back to the original MIDI channel].
Not my idea; one of many, many tips from Zuill.
We do not (yet) know what Playback Device jazzape61 is using.
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996
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- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:56 pm
- Finale Version: v25.5(2017)
- Operating System: Mac
The attachment quota has been reached, I am unable to include an attachment. I am using a USB powered MIDI keyboard. Would this be what it is playing back through? I am a bit confused by MIDI in general, but know enough to be able to use my keyboard to create a Finale document.
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- Posts: 6
- Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:56 pm
- Finale Version: v25.5(2017)
- Operating System: Mac
[quote="Skjalg"]The most reliable solution is to use (hidden) expressions to switch MIDI channel: Tacet 1. X [play on pass 1, switch to a unassigned channel, i.e. 125 or something]. —— «Play second time» can be a hidden expression [play on pass 2, switch back to the original MIDI channel].
Can you provide step by step instructions on this?
Can you provide step by step instructions on this?
-
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:36 am
- Finale Version: 2017
- Operating System: Windows
Hello!
I was working on an orchestra score and I came across this thread attempting to solve the same issue.
What worked for me was to create an expression as such.
Name: Trio - Play 2x only
Under the playback tab (at the top of the pop-out expressions window) I selected "Controller" in the drop-down menu and 7 for the "Volume" value. Below that I put 0 as the value for the effects and "Play only on pass" 1, thereby muting the track for the first repeat and playing it for the second as I intended.
Hope this helps!
-Chris
I was working on an orchestra score and I came across this thread attempting to solve the same issue.
What worked for me was to create an expression as such.
Name: Trio - Play 2x only
Under the playback tab (at the top of the pop-out expressions window) I selected "Controller" in the drop-down menu and 7 for the "Volume" value. Below that I put 0 as the value for the effects and "Play only on pass" 1, thereby muting the track for the first repeat and playing it for the second as I intended.
Hope this helps!
-Chris
Setting and re-setting the MIDI channel has the disadvantage that while resetting, you're assuming a specific MIDI channel. Thus, such an expression can only be used in one instrument in the score - or, you have to create multiple "play 2nd time only"s, each one resetting the MIDI channel to the correct inidividual channel. Not good.
Using MIDI CC07 or CC11 data has the (probably neglectable) disadvantage that MIDI note data gets sent anyway and thus costs polyphony.
Instead, better create:
- one invisible expression which is only played on pass 1 which sets transpose to 127: "tacet 1st time"
- another visible expression which is played on pass 2 and sets transpose to 0: "play 2nd time only"
This will not play on pass 1, but on pass 2. I tested with "Play through MIDI" as well as with "Play through VST".
You can use these expression anywhere in the score, as the MIDI channel is not affected. I ran Finale's MIDI output through MIDIOX to see what was being sent at all: my Finale 25 did not even send MIDI data on pass 1 (and thus did not cost polyphony on the sound generating device/software).
The latter fact surprised me, as I would have expected to get arbitrary high notes, which was not the case.
Using MIDI CC07 or CC11 data has the (probably neglectable) disadvantage that MIDI note data gets sent anyway and thus costs polyphony.
Instead, better create:
- one invisible expression which is only played on pass 1 which sets transpose to 127: "tacet 1st time"
- another visible expression which is played on pass 2 and sets transpose to 0: "play 2nd time only"
This will not play on pass 1, but on pass 2. I tested with "Play through MIDI" as well as with "Play through VST".
You can use these expression anywhere in the score, as the MIDI channel is not affected. I ran Finale's MIDI output through MIDIOX to see what was being sent at all: my Finale 25 did not even send MIDI data on pass 1 (and thus did not cost polyphony on the sound generating device/software).
The latter fact surprised me, as I would have expected to get arbitrary high notes, which was not the case.
Finale 3.0-25.5, German edition, Windows 7
trombonist, pianist, conductor / Recklinghausen, Germany
trombonist, pianist, conductor / Recklinghausen, Germany
- ebiggs1
- Posts: 1445
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:57 am
- Finale Version: Finale 27.3
- Operating System: Windows
The great thing about Finale is, if you can figure out a way, it can do almost anything. Tough part is that knowing how to tell it how or what to do. In this case I have found in so many ways a separate sound file is the best easiest way to do what you want. Just write it out as you want to hear it.
I find this two seperate file procedure so much easier and better that I now create three files. One for score, one for sound and one for printing.
I find this two seperate file procedure so much easier and better that I now create three files. One for score, one for sound and one for printing.
Finale 27.4.1 - Perfect Layout Silver - Note Performer 4.4 - SmartScore Pro 64 - Windows 11
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
President, The Shawnee Concert Band, Composer/Arranger, retired Music Teacher.
- michelp
- Posts: 2066
- Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 3:35 pm
- Finale Version: 27.4.1,26.3.1, Mont.
- Operating System: Mac
You will need a second expression, which restores the playback the 2nd x.
Michel
MacOsX 12.7.5, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua
MacOsX 12.7.5, Finale 27.4.1 & 26.3.1, Mac Mini Intel Dual Core i7 3Ghz, 16 Go Ram. Azerty kb. MOTU Midi Express XT USB, Roland Sound Canvas SC-88vl, MOTU Audio Express. 2 monitors (27"' pivot, 24'"), JW Lua, RGP Lua
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- Posts: 9
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:01 pm
- Finale Version: 27
- Operating System: Mac
This helped me out - I’m using “Play thru Audio Units” btw….HaraldS wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:53 pm
Instead, better create:
- one invisible expression which is only played on pass 1 which sets transpose to 127: "tacet 1st time"
- another visible expression which is played on pass 2 and sets transpose to 0: "play 2nd time only"
This will not play on pass 1, but on pass 2. I tested with "Play through MIDI" as well as with "Play through VST".
You can use these expression anywhere in the score, as the MIDI channel is not affected. I ran Finale's MIDI output through MIDIOX to see what was being sent at all: my Finale 25 did not even send MIDI data on pass 1 (and thus did not cost polyphony on the sound generating device/software).
__________
Tom Matta
Chicago
Tom Matta
Chicago
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- Posts: 9
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:01 pm
- Finale Version: 27
- Operating System: Mac
TomMattaBigBand wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:04 pmThis helped me out - I’m using “Play thru Audio Units” btw….HaraldS wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:53 pm
Instead, better create:
- one invisible expression which is only played on pass 1 which sets transpose to 127: "tacet 1st time"
- another visible expression which is played on pass 2 and sets transpose to 0: "play 2nd time only"
This will not play on pass 1, but on pass 2. I tested with "Play through MIDI" as well as with "Play through VST".
You can use these expression anywhere in the score, as the MIDI channel is not affected. I ran Finale's MIDI output through MIDIOX to see what was being sent at all: my Finale 25 did not even send MIDI data on pass 1 (and thus did not cost polyphony on the sound generating device/software).
THANK YOU!
__________
Tom Matta
Chicago
Tom Matta
Chicago
-
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sat May 25, 2019 8:41 pm
- Finale Version: 25.5, 2014
- Operating System: Windows
This worked perfectly for me. For years my solution was to copy the passage to eliminate the repeat.HaraldS wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:53 pmSetting and re-setting the MIDI channel has the disadvantage that while resetting, you're assuming a specific MIDI channel. Thus, such an expression can only be used in one instrument in the score - or, you have to create multiple "play 2nd time only"s, each one resetting the MIDI channel to the correct inidividual channel. Not good.
Using MIDI CC07 or CC11 data has the (probably neglectable) disadvantage that MIDI note data gets sent anyway and thus costs polyphony.
Instead, better create:
- one invisible expression which is only played on pass 1 which sets transpose to 127: "tacet 1st time"
- another visible expression which is played on pass 2 and sets transpose to 0: "play 2nd time only"
This will not play on pass 1, but on pass 2. I tested with "Play through MIDI" as well as with "Play through VST".
You can use these expression anywhere in the score, as the MIDI channel is not affected. I ran Finale's MIDI output through MIDIOX to see what was being sent at all: my Finale 25 did not even send MIDI data on pass 1 (and thus did not cost polyphony on the sound generating device/software).
The latter fact surprised me, as I would have expected to get arbitrary high notes, which was not the case.