player to repeat short segment

Discuss playback problems, including VST, Garritan, MIDI, etc.

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lynndavidnewton
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Finale Version: 25.5.0.259
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Post by lynndavidnewton » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:43 pm

Latest Mac OS, latest Finale.

This is not directly a Finale question and may be irrelevant, but
I figure maybe someone in this group would know this.

Is there some kind of a player of sound files that I can use to play
audio files where I can set a start and end (I'm thinking like a
measure or a few beats) and get it to loop?

I'm thinking in terms of a tool I can use to do transcriptions, to
pick stuff out by ear ... which everybody who's ever done it
knows is hard and requires repeating passages until you have
them, and it's a hassle to be trying to stop and start in
something like iTunes.

Can I do that with Logic? (Yes, I have logic, but have barely ever
used it.)

This is Finale-related in the sense that I'm trying to make written
transcriptions of some old music of mine that is recorded only,
not written down.


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zuill
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Post by zuill » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:19 am

I am guessing that can be done, but I do all my transcription work right in Finale. Syncing up the audio to the measures is usually not 100% precise, but close enough. Not the looping idea, but for me with spacebar-click, I find it very easy to start and stop. Start then stop, then transcribe, a measure at a time. Sometimes I will create a copy of the audio that is at a slower tempo, then load into Finale.

I used to work with an audio player and Finale going back and forth. However, loading an audio track into Finale has been a dream for me since I started doing that.

Zuill

P.S.: I just tested Audacity and it has a loop feature. However, I won't abandon doing it all right in Finale. The only way to go, for my money.
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

lynndavidnewton
Posts: 280
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Finale Version: 25.5.0.259
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Post by lynndavidnewton » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:03 pm

zuill wrote:I am guessing that can be done, but I do all my transcription work right in Finale. Syncing up the audio to the measures is usually not 100% precise, but close enough. Not the looping idea, but for me with spacebar-click, I find it very easy to start and stop. Start then stop, then transcribe, a measure at a time. Sometimes I will create a copy of the audio that is at a slower tempo, then load into Finale.

I used to work with an audio player and Finale going back and forth. However, loading an audio track into Finale has been a dream for me since I started doing that.
OK. Umm. Forgive me for more probably dumb questions, but I've been away from the professional
music business for a very long time and meanwhile huge gaps in my technical knowledge have
developed.

When you say "sync up the audio", what are you playing in Finale? I can't load up an external MP3 or
AIFF or WAV into Finale, can I?

I have a recording (an MP3, though I could get a WAV or AIFF off the CD ... of my own music) and
I'm trying to make a Finale version of it, having never made so much as a lead sheet out of it.
Not a real problem, but what I'm trying to do is nab some of the rhythm of the phrasing as it
was recorded (also by myself) to make it a little less square.

I can't do a measure at a time. Certain things I need to hear the audio a few beats at a time
and it really needs to loop. The mechanics of using the iTunes mini-player to do that are really
tedious, particularly when I'm going back and forth between that and Finale.

The thing I'm working on is relatively simple, but I have four or five more to do afterward
and some of them aren't so simple.

Here's a related question: Is is possible to use live voice to drive HyperScribe? (Which is an
otherwise close to useless tool unless you're Yuja Wang trying to input Mary Had a Little Lamb.
Even with quantization on, it's just too flaky. My opinion. And yes, I can play piano well
enough to use it if it worked better.)

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FwL
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Post by FwL » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:47 pm

Audacity is probably your solution for transcribing the audio. It will do what you need. I use it myself for this very function.
A composer is a guy who goes around forcing his will on unsuspecting air molecules... often with the aid of unsuspecting musicians - Frank Zappa

lynndavidnewton
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Post by lynndavidnewton » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:14 pm

FwL wrote:Audacity is probably your solution for transcribing the audio. It will do what you need. I use it myself for this very function.
I went out and got it and was able to figure out how to make it do exactly what I want immediately.
I'm sure this will be a fantastic tool.

I'm sure I could also use Logic, which is sort of like using an F-22 to fly from
Columbus (where I live) to Cincinnati. I'll learn as soon as I finish wiping out
my archive of older music.

Thanks very much for this suggestion. It's perfect. Problem solved.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:29 pm

With Finale, from the MIDI/Audio menu (I don't know what Mac calls it) I select Audio Track/Add Audio Track. that will tale you right to Studio view. Then choose Audio track/Load Audio. There are some options, but usually, the default is good for me. I will never go back to 2 programs for transcription.

You can create a Repeat Tool Loop item that does what you want. Call it Loop. Click on a measure and add it there. Make the destination the same measure and then choose Always Jump. It will only be limited by your repeat tool settings as to maximum number of repeats. If you need more than that, change the number in repeat options. When you're done with that measure, delete the repeat tool item, and then apply it to the next measure. If you need more than 1 measure, then put the Loop repeat item in the last measure, and set it to go back to the first measure desired. I don't think you can do partial measures, though.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

lynndavidnewton
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Post by lynndavidnewton » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:50 am

zuill wrote:With Finale, from the MIDI/Audio menu (I don't know what Mac calls it) I select Audio Track/Add Audio Track. that will tale you right to Studio view. Then choose Audio track/Load Audio. There are some options, but usually, the default is good for me. I will never go back to 2 programs for transcription.

You can create a Repeat Tool Loop item that does what you want. Call it Loop. Click on a measure and add it there. Make the destination the same measure and then choose Always Jump. It will only be limited by your repeat tool settings as to maximum number of repeats. If you need more than that, change the number in repeat options. When you're done with that measure, delete the repeat tool item, and then apply it to the next measure. If you need more than 1 measure, then put the Loop repeat item in the last measure, and set it to go back to the first measure desired. I don't think you can do partial measures, though.

Zuill
MIDI/Audio is the same on Mac.

Thank you for this information, but I'm afraid you lost me on this one. I tried adding an audio track, but
don't really even know what that is or how it could benefit me. Yes, I could look it up, but as noted above,
the solution of using AudaCity worked perfectly for me to accomplish the problem I introduced in my
original post. The only problem with it is it's kind of hard to know exactly where to start and stop the
selected region. With a little progress you can get close. There's probably a way to expand the view
and nail an exact point, but I haven't bothered to learn yet. I was able to bring it up, having never
seen it in my life, and learn in less than two minutes to get it to do exactly what I wanted, and it
got me over the hump for the score I'm working on. Problem solved.

But as for creating an Repeat Tool, I don't understand how to do that. I assume it has something to
do with the audio track I just created.

But that's OK. I've saved your instructions in a notes file and will look again if the time comes when
I think I need something like that. Meanwhile thanks for the information. - ldn.

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:59 pm

Well, if you lived closer, I would come over and show you how I do it. I just had to create a flute part from an orchestral arrangement (lifting passages from flute, violin and oboe) by ear. Without having the audio in Finale, I would have taken twice the time to do it. I aligned the track fairly closely, and then started and stopped where needed, entered notes, next bar, listened and entered, etc. So easy.

With Audacity, you do have the ability to zoom in. You can also put bookmarks to easily find points. You can save an Audacity project so you can come back to your project with all the bookmarks. You can label the bookmarks. When I record a concert, for example, I bookmark the beginning and ending of each piece. I can then tell Audacity to extract mp3 files of each piece according to the bookmarks.

However, doing transcription in Finale is my MO now. I hope sometime you figure it out to see what I mean.

Zuill

P.S.: I added a picture to show how the loaded audio appears in Studio View
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

lynndavidnewton
Posts: 280
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:11 pm
Finale Version: 25.5.0.259
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Post by lynndavidnewton » Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:11 am

zuill wrote:Well, if you lived closer, I would come over and show you how I do it. I just had to create a flute part from an orchestral arrangement (lifting passages from flute, violin and oboe) by ear. Without having the audio in Finale, I would have taken twice the time to do it. I aligned the track fairly closely, and then started and stopped where needed, entered notes, next bar, listened and entered, etc. So easy.

With Audacity, you do have the ability to zoom in. You can also put bookmarks to easily find points. You can save an Audacity project so you can come back to your project with all the bookmarks. You can label the bookmarks. When I record a concert, for example, I bookmark the beginning and ending of each piece. I can then tell Audacity to extract mp3 files of each piece according to the bookmarks.

However, doing transcription in Finale is my MO now. I hope sometime you figure it out to see what I mean.

Zuill

P.S.: I added a picture to show how the loaded audio appears in Studio View
You're a generous man. Yeah, Columbus, Ohio is a bit far from southern California. (I lived in Phoenix for 30 years, though.)

The picture was helpful. A light bulb went on. I see what you're up to.
But what if the audio and Finale file are not precisely coordinated?
For instance, the tempo of the piece I'm transcribing is a bit faster than I want it to be,
so I slowed it a shade in Finale. That audio file is going to get off pretty quickly, isn't it?

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:04 am

The notes you see above is a tempo track. I use Hyperscribe to tap the tempo using the space bar. In hyperscibe you click the beginning of a measure (I start with the first measure, and then later on, might need to realign later measures) and tap as I listen. it gets close, but not exactly aligned.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

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motet
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Post by motet » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:05 pm

I would endure the wrong tempo long enough to get it transcribed.

lynndavidnewton
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Post by lynndavidnewton » Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:30 pm

motet wrote:I would endure the wrong tempo long enough to get it transcribed.
I know what you mean. Zuill's method is intriguing, and when I get some time free I'd like to
learn how to do what he says. But with AudaCity I was able to knock off the job I'm working on
quickly. The fact is I rarely do transcription work, but I do have a couple of albums I recorded
long ago for which I have no form of written music. Most I remember well enough I can just
write it. But some things I have to stop and figure out. Got another six or eight of those to
go and then I'll probably only rarely need to transcribe. Meanwhile I've discovered
AudaCity, which is a good tool.

BTW, ability to zoom and to set and memorize ranges and make projects and the like noted.
I figured that was possible when I looked at it.

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