How to get the most out of JABB

Discuss playback problems, including VST, Garritan, MIDI, etc.

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Deacon Don
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:21 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Windows

How to get the most out of JABB

Post by Deacon Don » Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:51 pm

I just listened to this track.
https://soundcloud.com/garritan/scream- ... d-big-band

My trumpets (and all of the other instruments) sound more like MIDI, only a little better. Not even close to
the sample on the url.

What techniques are necessary to create a trumpet sound that's on the URL? F'rinstance, are the sounds
modified using ARIA? If so what is modified? Are the articulations modified? I'm sure there are other elements
involved.

I was hoping that JABB would be plug and play but apparently it's not.
Finale 25
JABB
Windows 10

Re: How to get the most out of JABB

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ttw
Posts: 88
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Finale Version: 26.2
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Re: How to get the most out of JABB

Post by ttw » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:48 pm

To get better results I use two processes. First (and probably least) is the Human Playback settings. I use a Custom setting based either on Romantic or Latin or Baroque or the like depending on what I want it to sound like. Then in the "Custom Style" stuff, regardless of other settings I do the following: on the top, everything is checked except "Final Bars." Then below, everything is unchecked except for: "Auto Piano Pedaling" and "String Harmonics" and "Strum Plucked String Chords" and sometimes "Play 32nd Note Rolls Exactly. I also set the music to type I'm writing (bolero=96, rumba=108-120, foxtrot=120-144, waltz=144-180, etc.)

I choose instruments that I want using the Score Manager. Generally I use a separate Aria instance for each group of instruments (tedious but not too hard) as some instruments may need different ambience settings.

In the Aria Player under "MIDI/Audio" and "VST Banks and Effects" I do the following.

First, make sure the correct instrument is chosen. Sometimes the Score Manager chooses a different instrument (like JABB congas rather than GWI or Clarinet Player rather than Clarinet Solo). One has to navigate through several menus to get the Notation (and KS) version of instruments. Some experimentation is probably necessary to find the right combination. Reading the GPO4 manual (pdf downloadable) helps; then read the online GPO5 to figure out differences.) GPO5 has great Steinway stuff.

Next, I bypass all the individual banks and master effects on the first pulldown screen (The do apply on top of each other and on top of the Aria anbiences so there's lots of possibilities but I don't know how to use all of them).

Then (clicking on the pencil by the Aria player) you get five screens.

The first screen (INFO) has the names of the instruments in this instance of the Aria player.

The second screen (CONTROLS) has different types of settings, I just set "Stereo Stage" and "Equalizer" to On.

The third screen (MIXER) allows mixing and moving instrumental sounds left-to-right (Panning), I leave it alone.

The fourth screen (EFFECTS) has two Ambience programs: I only use the CONVOLUTION rather than the AMBIENCE ambience. The AMBIENCE controls change reverb, wet to dry (echo to direct sound) etc. The CONVOLUTION ambience plays back as if the instruments were playing in the named setting. One can experiment and figure out what sounds good. Different Aria instruments can have different reverb.

The fifth screen (SETTINGS) allows one to adjust how much cache is allocated (depends on your RAM) and check for updates. Different tuning choices are available. I usually use default though I will allow more RAM if on a computer with lots of memory.

The sixth screen rides a pale horse (not really).

One has to do this for each set of instruments. The only thing is that with large ensembles, it's a bit tedious.

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FwL
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Re: How to get the most out of JABB

Post by FwL » Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:35 am

That level of realism is only possible by creating the arrangement phrase by phrase in a DAW utilizing plenty of controller data, patch switching and layering along with various other tricks.
A composer is a guy who goes around forcing his will on unsuspecting air molecules... often with the aid of unsuspecting musicians - Frank Zappa

Deacon Don
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:21 pm
Finale Version: 25
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Re: How to get the most out of JABB

Post by Deacon Don » Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:23 am

ttw wrote: To get better results I use two processes...
Fantastic. I appreciate your time and expertise. You definitely provided much
needed information.
Finale 25
JABB
Windows 10

Deacon Don
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:21 pm
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Re: How to get the most out of JABB

Post by Deacon Don » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:14 pm

FwL wrote: That level of realism is only possible by creating the arrangement phrase by phrase in
a DAW utilizing plenty of controller data, patch switching and layering along with
various other tricks.
I've read that controller data is important to a realistic performance. I'm not sure
how to do it but some of it has to do with pitch wheel. If you have any advice I'd
like to hear it and would like to see a video if you know of any.
Finale 25
JABB
Windows 10

Deacon Don
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:21 pm
Finale Version: 25
Operating System: Windows

Re: How to get the most out of JABB

Post by Deacon Don » Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:41 pm

ttw wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:48 pm
...
To get better results I use two processes. First (and probably least) is the Human Playback
settings. I use a Custom setting based either on Romantic or Latin or Baroque or the like
depending on what I want it to sound like.
...
What would you change to make the Romantic or Latin or Baroque different from each
other? Use the selections in the playback? This intrigues me. After I used your settings
my music came alive. Now I want to do more and am just getting acquainted with this.

I'm new to the Garritan and Aria playback world and haven't known where to get "how to
stuff" except here.
Finale 25
JABB
Windows 10

ttw
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Finale Version: 26.2
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Re: How to get the most out of JABB

Post by ttw » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:47 am

The biggest (but still not too big) difference seems to be the rhythmic feel and rhythmic accent settings. I do put the on the baroque ornament flag and sometime final bars (though that's not necessarily historically accurate.)

I think it's more important to turn on human playback than the exact settings (except for feels and final bars and Viennese Waltz which I can hear.)

oldmkvi
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Re: How to get the most out of JABB

Post by oldmkvi » Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:46 pm

What do Baroque or Romantic HP Settings have to with Jazz and Big Bands?

oldmkvi
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Re: How to get the most out of JABB

Post by oldmkvi » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:17 pm

I want to try some of your method, but I have completely different Aria Info available than what you described.
I'm on F 25.5/Mac, and there's no editing Pencil, No Stereo Stage Setting, at least.
I have always used the Mixer in the Window Drop-Down Menu.
Panning is essential for me, it's Mono otherwise.
I also use Standard HP, apply Custom Swing % and Articulation/Slurring to get the most natural sound I can.
Tonguing every note sounds terrible!
The Jazz HP Setting is no good, I like my settings a lot more.
It do exclusively Jazz, tho some is Straight Feel too.
But I haven't done much Big Band at all on Finale, and what I did do didn't sound so good.
The Tpts were tinny, the Saxes buzzy and metallic.
The whole thing was thin and piercing.
All Garrtitan sounds that came with the program.
Probably I should get JABB too.
How much better are the Saxes and Tpts in JABB then what comes with Finale?
The Clarinet Quartets I write sound fine on Finale, the Solo Cl and Bass Cl are among their Best sounds.
But I tried some Sax Qts, but the Sax sound is pretty bad, Soft Synth too, for that matter.
Anyway, thanks for your detailed post.

ttw
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:29 am
Finale Version: 26.2
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Re: How to get the most out of JABB

Post by ttw » Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:56 pm

The Human Playback just sets a bunch of preferences for accents or note durations or whether to swing eighth notes or the like. JABB is a bunch of instruments. One can mix them in any way one wishes. Somewhere (I think in the Finale help stuff and at least one tutorial), there's an explanation of what each setting does. I've only used the "Latin" and "Romantic" basic settings but I always turn off everything on the left box (except baroque ornaments) and on the RHS, I onlys use Auto Piano Pedaling and String Harmonics a Strum String chords. On top, I turn on everything but Final Bars. I may try using the Classical or March stuf sometime.

The other thing I use are the presets in the convolution reverb. I also always turn on Stereo Stage and Equalizer. I choose (in general) one of the concert halls or ballroom or dome ballroom or chamber or club to get varying degrees or wet. One can use different choices on different instruments.

I often combine instruments from different libraries. I used the solo clarinet from GPO5 with the JABB3 plucked bass 2 and the drums from GWI Latin American 1 and 2 (though some of these are in JABB3; I use whicher one sounds best.)

I read a bit on the internet about about using reverbs but I don't have a background in electronic music production (although I understand the math behind the reverbs). I have been experimenting an discussing the experiments here for the most part (and on the Old Forum now defunct.)

sandalwood
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Re: How to get the most out of JABB

Post by sandalwood » Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:55 pm

Actually, a lengthy discussion has taken place in the old Makemusic Garritan forum triggered by the same "screaming trumpets" audio. Lots of detail on how to make better use of JABB and other Garritan sounds.

https://forums.makemusic.com/viewtopic. ... e35e006f28

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