Particular Measure on Particular Staff Won't Play Above mf

Discuss playback problems, including VST, Garritan, MIDI, etc.

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michaelrmurrin
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Finale Version: Finale 25
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Particular Measure on Particular Staff Won't Play Above mf

Post by michaelrmurrin » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:37 am

I have a staff that seems to get quieter around the 3rd measure of playback. So I added a "ffff" to that particular measure on that particular staff. That didn't do anything. This particular measure won't play back louder than mezzo-forte. When I add the "ffff" to that measure and it plays back, it makes almost like a clicking sound at the beginning of the measure, as if it is trying to change the volume but can't.

Does anyone know what might be causing the problem?

I am on Finale 25 on Windows 10. In this document I am using both SmartMusic SoftSynth and Garritan Personal Orchestra 5. This is a piece for brass and percussion. The percussion and timpani and french horns and tuba are using Garritan Personal Orchestra 5. The trumpets and trombones are using SmartMusic SoftSynth. I have already changed the levels in the Mixer so that there is proper balance between all the instruments. The trumpets and trombones are at the maximum volume (127). The rest of the instruments are around 90. The problematic measure is in a trumpet staff which is using SmartMusic SoftSynth and turned all the way up.
Finale 25 (Windows 10)
Garritan Personal Orchestra 5, SmartMusic SoftSynth, Magnus Choir, Garritan Instruments for Finale

Re: Particular Measure on Particular Staff Won't Play Above mf

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zuill
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Re: Particular Measure on Particular Staff Won't Play Above

Post by zuill » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:53 am

Hard to say without seeing a file. Often there can be things that are hidden. There might be MIDI data, for example. Was this file created freshly in Finale, or imported from a MIDI file or XML file?

Zuill
Windows 7, Finale 2011-v26.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

michaelrmurrin
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Re: Particular Measure on Particular Staff Won't Play Above

Post by michaelrmurrin » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:47 am

zuill wrote:Hard to say without seeing a file. Often there can be things that are hidden. There might be MIDI data, for example. Was this file created freshly in Finale, or imported from a MIDI file or XML file?

Zuill
Thanks for the response - attached is the Finale file for testing/diagnostics. This file was created freshly in Finale.
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Garritan Personal Orchestra 5, SmartMusic SoftSynth, Magnus Choir, Garritan Instruments for Finale

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zuill
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Re: Particular Measure on Particular Staff Won't Play Above

Post by zuill » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:30 am

Sorry. I don't hear a click. When I take out the ffff, it sounds the same level as the prior measures. I'm testing in Finale 26.

Zuill

P.S.: I tested in v25 and still it seems to behave properly without a click, and, after removing the ffff, plays without dropping in volume.
Windows 7, Finale 2011-v26.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

michaelrmurrin
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Re: Particular Measure on Particular Staff Won't Play Above

Post by michaelrmurrin » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:47 am

zuill wrote:Sorry. I don't hear a click. When I take out the ffff, it sounds the same level as the prior measures. I'm testing in Finale 26.

Zuill

P.S.: I tested in v25 and still it seems to behave properly without a click, and, after removing the ffff, plays without dropping in volume.
Thanks for the testing and response

For clarification, when the ffff is there, does the trumpet part play more loudly than the previous measures? In my case, the ffff measure was playing at the same volume as the previous measures.

(I ended up just changing the trumpet staves to Garritan Personal Orchestra 5 anyway, and they behave properly now. But would still be curious to know if, (when using SmartMusic SoftSynth for these trumpet parts), if others encountered the same problem that I encountered. (The problem being that the ffff measure would not play any more loudly than the previous measures)).

Thank you,

Michael Murrin
Finale 25 (Windows 10)
Garritan Personal Orchestra 5, SmartMusic SoftSynth, Magnus Choir, Garritan Instruments for Finale

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Michel R E
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Re: Particular Measure on Particular Staff Won't Play Above

Post by Michel R E » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:59 am

the reason you might not notice a difference when you insert a ffff marking is that it might not have playback defined.
remember that MIDI volume goes from 0 to 127. you can't go higher.
if the instrument is programmed, or recorded, at a certain level then that's the level you will get as its loudest.

one issue with MIDI playback is that the dynamic range is severely restricted. this is sort of the nature of the beast.
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michaelrmurrin
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Re: Particular Measure on Particular Staff Won't Play Above

Post by michaelrmurrin » Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:21 am

Michel R E wrote:the reason you might not notice a difference when you insert a ffff marking is that it might not have playback defined.
remember that MIDI volume goes from 0 to 127. you can't go higher.
Aha! Then that answers why that was happening. (The trumpet staves were set to 127 (by me) when I was using SmartMusic SoftSynth for the trumpets. But when I have the trumpets using Garritan Personal Orchestra, the trumpet staves are at 90. That would explain why with GPO it successfully gets louder when I put things like ff). Thanks for the info. I am not too well-versed in MIDI stuff.
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jbearch
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Re: Particular Measure on Particular Staff Won't Play Above

Post by jbearch » Fri Aug 23, 2019 4:16 pm

Win 10, Finale 26

I read this with interest because I have exactly the same problem in a piece I am working on now. String Quartet, everybody playing p, nothing unusual, very simple music, but all of a sudden in 2 measures the sound drops out of the viola. As if the dynamic had changed to pppp. Still there, but barely audible when everybody else is playing. I added a p to that measure for the viola and it played perfectly as it should. Why would Finale change the dynamic during input? I input using only the mouse, no midi, Standard HP, Incorporate Data on all Midi variables in HP. Does anybody know why this happens and what can be done about it.

michaelrmurrin
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Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:11 am
Finale Version: Finale 25
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Re: Particular Measure on Particular Staff Won't Play Above

Post by michaelrmurrin » Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:08 am

jbearch wrote:Win 10, Finale 26

I read this with interest because I have exactly the same problem in a piece I am working on now. String Quartet, everybody playing p, nothing unusual, very simple music, but all of a sudden in 2 measures the sound drops out of the viola. As if the dynamic had changed to pppp. Still there, but barely audible when everybody else is playing. I added a p to that measure for the viola and it played perfectly as it should. Why would Finale change the dynamic during input? I input using only the mouse, no midi, Standard HP, Incorporate Data on all Midi variables in HP. Does anybody know why this happens and what can be done about it.
This may not be a particularly great answer, but:

I have encountered the same problem a few times, in which for some unknown reason, the volume of an instrument will drop out (despite the fact that I have not added any dynamic changes), but when I add (to the problematic measure) the same dynamic it's supposedly already playing, it fixes the problem and plays back at the correct dynamic. As someone who does not know much about MIDI music/programming, I do not know why it does this. But this is one of the reasons why I tend to create 2 Finale files: one specifically for MIDI playback, and one specifically to make a PDF (and parts) of the music. I don't know a lot about MIDI playback, but to me, it seems that MIDI playback (like a lot of other computer-related things) can be buggy for one reason or another.

So, I don't know a lot about MIDI playback, and I don't know why it happens, but my only suggestion is maybe to create 2 files, one for MIDI playback, and one for creating a PDF and parts.

The other (and perhaps bigger) reason why I create 2 files (one for MIDI playback and one for creating a PDF and parts) is: I'm pretty obsessive about having the balance exactly right in the MIDI recording, and I usually change around the dynamics a lot, so that the balance reflects which parts I want to be prominent, as well as making sure that the total ensemble sound will have a good balance that will sound good in the MIDI playback.

Perhaps there is someone else here who knows more about exactly what would cause the playback inconsistencies you are experiencing...
Finale 25 (Windows 10)
Garritan Personal Orchestra 5, SmartMusic SoftSynth, Magnus Choir, Garritan Instruments for Finale

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