Can't Remove Human Input Rhythms

Discuss playback problems, including VST, Garritan, MIDI, etc.

Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker

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lijah11b
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Post by lijah11b » Fri May 29, 2020 5:12 pm

After using the Hyperscribe tool, the notated rhythms of my file have all been quantized correctly but the playback of the track continues to perform my slightly erroneous human input. How can I remove that influence so the MIDI playback is exactly what is on the page? (I need precise note duration MIDI data.)


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Peter Thomsen
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Post by Peter Thomsen » Fri May 29, 2020 5:22 pm

Make a backup copy of the Finale document, and try this on the backup copy:

Selection Tool.
Select All.
Edit menu > Clear Selected Items…

In the dialog box Clear Selected Items, de-select everything except
MIDI Data > Performance Data
Mac OS X 12.6.9 (Monterey), Finale user since 1996

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Fri May 29, 2020 5:35 pm

Also, without clearing the playback data, you might want to try unchecking some of the playback options in the Playback window to see if that helps.

Zuill
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"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

bytemiser01
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Post by bytemiser01 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:15 pm

Hello forum. I am having exactly this same problem. I tried the clear option (with only MIDI options checked). No help. I then tried the playback options, unchecked everything, and still the gross rhythms that look correct, (because I quantized down to the eight note), but sound is embarrassing. I also tried creating a new blank Finale file, used the copy filter option to copy everything but midi, but still no luck. If I playback through VST, it fixes the rhythm problem, but then I do not have the option to output to mp3. The wav file sounds fine*, but it is so large. The midi output option is unacceptable. Is my only option to find a wav to mp3 converter? Because of this problem, I don't think I can use hyperscribe to enter rhythms in real time.

*Perhaps, I should start a different thread, but I have a weird problem with VST playback on a first and second ending. When the solo clarinet part repeats, the volume drops 50%. If I change the first ending to FF in the part, the repeat is louder, but still 50% less than the FF in the first ending. The part was entered with hyperscribe, so maybe it is related to my first problem.
Thanks,
Jim

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motet
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Post by motet » Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:35 pm

If the WAV file is fine, get Audacity and create the MP3 from that. It's something anyone who deals with music shouldn't be without.

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motet
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Post by motet » Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:38 pm

You might also try the MIDI tool, select all, and pick Clear from the MIDI menu (not the MIDI/Audio menu).

bytemiser01
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Post by bytemiser01 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:40 pm

Thank you for your replies Motet. I have downloaded and installed Audacity on my Windows 10 machine. That worked great to convert to MP3.

The problem with playback seems to be mostly audible when I playback through the midi connection to my midi controller (Yamaha Clavinova CLP-124). I am using the M-Audio USB cable with USB Uno MIDI Interface driver. If I change the MIDI playback to use default internal midi, the problem is mostly mitigated.

I noticed when I am using hyperscribe, many times there is a problem missing the very first note after the count off. I moved the click to the MIDI controller and that helped the latency problem immensely, but I may need some more experimentation there.

I still have not figured out why the repeat shifts to a lower volume (only in the very first first ending and only in the Clarinet part). This happens in every playback option (VST with Human Playback, or MIDI with internal default drivers).

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motet
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Post by motet » Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:13 pm

As an experiment, try setting Human Playback to None.

bytemiser01
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Post by bytemiser01 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:36 pm

Interesting. When I set Human Playback to none the clarinet part is at the softer volume both times. BTW, in Human Playback preferences, I have the options on the MIDI tab set to Ignore Data for all options.

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motet
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Post by motet » Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:03 pm

It may be something other than MIDI data causing it. If you can upload your file here, someone may be able to figure it out.

bytemiser01
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Post by bytemiser01 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:32 pm

Motet,
Thank you so much for your time and replies. I started a new project, and I have removed many variables, but it clearly exemplifies some of the playback issues. In the attached example, I did NOT use hyperscribe to enter the rhythms. I used the keyboard method to select the note values and used the Midi controller to enter the notes. When I play back through the Midi controller, the notes do not play evenly. This is also true when I playback using internal default midi output device (but to a seemingly lesser extent). However when I use VST (and human playback), it sounds correct. (Note: In human playback preferences on the MIDI tab, I have set all options to "HP Ignore Data").

Some of the playback problems sound almost as if swing is turned on.

This example does not address the softer volume on repeat problem, but I will save that for another time.

Thanks for your help.
Jim
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Ausencias-Score_in_C.musx
(112.56 KiB) Downloaded 101 times

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motet
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Post by motet » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:16 pm

I don't have a way to listen through a MIDI controller, but through SoftSynth it sounds pretty even, even mechanically so. Can you point to a specific measure or measures and describe the discrepency?

bytemiser01
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Post by bytemiser01 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:36 pm

Easiest to hear is the last 4 sixteens in measure 8. On my setup (internal default midi), they sound almost swung.

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Post by bytemiser01 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:11 pm

More information. If I save audio to MP3, it sounds correct. The unevenness is only apparent when I play it live from Finale. I tried to upload my mp3 sample, but it says invalid extension.

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motet
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Post by motet » Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:16 pm

I'm afraid I'm out of my element here. If I look at note durations of the cello part in measure 8 with the MIDI tool they indeed look uneven, but they play back evenly for me (I set the tempo much slower to be sure). Perhaps it's a red herring, though, since you entered the music with step-time, which shouldn't have any concept of duration other than that implied by written note values. Or perhaps I'm not understanding what I'm looking at, or perhaps Finale is doing something wrong (both of which are entirely possible!). Maybe someone else will know.
Attachments
0508.png
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bytemiser01
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Post by bytemiser01 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:33 pm

Motet,
I have asked a friend to try to duplicate the problem on his machine. I took a short video of the problem measure, but I don't think I can upload it. Maybe someone else will have some ideas.

It is really just an annoyance when you are creating the score and you want to verify the sound. At least I do have workarounds, but the initial complaint on this thread sounds like others may be experiencing the same problem.

bytemiser01
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Post by bytemiser01 » Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:59 pm

Motet,
My friend verified your finding, that the playback from my score fragment is normal on his machine as well. That leads me to conclude the problem is in my machine, hardware, or setup.
Does anyone have MIDI device setup recommendations for my situation?
Here is my hardware:
midi controller (Yamaha Clavinova CLP-124). I am using the M-Audio USB cable with USB Uno MIDI Interface driver.

I think the problem sound is best described as "stuttering". Maybe a buffer setting, or channel conflict, etc? The problem occurs when I playback on Midi/Audio --> Play Finale through Midi. From Midi/Audio --> Device Setup --> Midi Setup, the problem occurs with both "the default MIDI output device" selected or the "UBS Uno MIDI interface". One other possible clue is that when the audio option to save to MP3 is taken, the playback is normal (no stuttering).

Thanks for recommendations on settings that might alleviate the problem.
Jim

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:19 pm

What is the Audio Device in Audio setup? What is the buffer size?

Zuill
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bytemiser01
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Post by bytemiser01 » Tue Jun 09, 2020 6:53 pm

Hello Zuill
Audio Driver = Direct Sound (Enabled is checked)
Buffer Size = 8192

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:41 pm

Okay. Direct Sound is best. I had problems when my buffer was high. I have 1024 chosen and no problems.

Zuill
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"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

bytemiser01
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Post by bytemiser01 » Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:59 pm

Zuill,
You are the BEST. That fixed the playback rhythm problem for both Internal MIDI and my Clavinova!
Thanks to all for your time and expertise.

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