Swing setting affects note volume

Discuss playback problems, including VST, Garritan, MIDI, etc.

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campersand
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:03 am
Finale Version: 26
Operating System: Windows

Post by campersand » Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:32 am

Since updating to Finale 26, I've noticed that certain notes will sometimes be extremely quiet during playback, for no discernible reason.

After messing around with playback settings a bit, I've traced it to Human Playback; specifically the "swing" setting. When I have a human playback type selected that does NOT have swing turned on, I get the randomly quiet notes. But if I select a setting that does have swing OR I select "custom" and turn swing on, the notes are played at normal volume.

It's also worth noting that when I turn human playback off, the quiet notes seem to be played at normal volume.

Am I the only one who's experienced this? It must be a bug, no?

EDIT: Actually, it seems to go both ways. Just noticed a different instrument doing the quiet thing while I had human playback turned OFF. Turned it on (to standard) and it plays back fine.
Finale 26.3.1.520, windows 11


oldmkvi
Posts: 384
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Finale Version: 25
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Post by oldmkvi » Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:34 pm

Use the Expression Tool to set and remove Swing, not HP.
I use Standard HP, even for Jazz, and add Slurs that make it sound right, not all tongued.
But I'm on F25.
I've read a few problems with F26 on Playback.

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zuill
Posts: 4418
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Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:52 pm

This discussion is about v26, and I see that v26.2 is the version used by the OP. I just updated to v26.3.1. I suppose I would have to examine a specific file with the issues to see if there is a noticeable problem as described.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

campersand
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:03 am
Finale Version: 26
Operating System: Windows

Post by campersand » Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:52 pm

After more digging, it seems to be an issue with the automatic manipulation of the mod wheel in Garritan during playback. And it seems to mostly affect notes at the end of a phrase, before a rest, as if human playback is trying to do a diminuendo at the end of the phrase but doing it too early and too extremely.

I've attached the most recent file I've had this problem with. It happens in the violin in measure 8, and cello & bass in m19. Not sure if this will happen the same way for anyone else, since it seems to be an issue with Garritan rather than the file itself, but if I look at the Controls tab of the Aria player during playback, I can see the mod wheel being turned way down at those spots for those instruments. No idea why the swing setting has any effect.

I have Aria player version 1.959
Finale 26.3.1.520, windows 11

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zuill
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Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
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Post by zuill » Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:04 pm

I don't hear any drop-offs in volume, and I don't see the Mod wheel move at all.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

campersand
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:03 am
Finale Version: 26
Operating System: Windows

Post by campersand » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:40 pm

zuill wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:04 pm
I don't hear any drop-offs in volume, and I don't see the Mod wheel move at all.

Zuill
Hmm, I'm surprised your mod wheel isn't moving at all. Isn't that one of the main features of human playback? My mod wheel is constantly moving on all of my instruments, even with human playback turned off.

I've discovered that if I set "Dynamic Approach for Sustaining Instruments" in the Dynamics/Volume tab of Human Playback options to "Expression + Velocity", it somewhat mitigates the problem. The notes don't get quite as quiet at the problem spots, though they still seem to get a bit quieter. This is really perplexing.
Finale 26.3.1.520, windows 11

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:39 pm

Okay. I didn't see the Mod Wheel move in m. 8. I see now that MIDI Data has been applied to some of the tracks but not all. I'm not sure how you did that. Possibly you used the Apply HP feature to selected staves? If you want to have HP control all of the playback, you might want to either get rid of that MIDI data in those staves, and then apply it to all the staves at once, or just keep the MIDI data out, and let HP control things for you in live playback.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

campersand
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:03 am
Finale Version: 26
Operating System: Windows

Post by campersand » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:03 am

Thanks, I have no idea how midi data got applied to those tracks, as I never work with midi in Finale. Maybe I accidentally hit a keyboard shortcut?

Anyway, I cleared all the midi data from all tracks and I still get the weird volume dips with human playback turned on, and still can see the mod wheel turning itself way down at those spots.

Kind of at a loss for what to do at this point, aside from just turning human playback off, which I'd rather not have to do.
Finale 26.3.1.520, windows 11

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:11 am

Create a Custom HP Playback setting. In that window, uncheck Automatic Expression. That should stop the MOD Wheel issue.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

campersand
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:03 am
Finale Version: 26
Operating System: Windows

Post by campersand » Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:25 pm

Thanks, that worked!
Finale 26.3.1.520, windows 11

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