Problems exporting audio files for use in a DAW

Discuss playback problems, including VST, Garritan, MIDI, etc.

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bj nick
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Post by bj nick » Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:56 pm

I understand that I should consider Finale playback as more of a "tool" for checking things over, rather than producing polished audio files. But I'm frustrated by the limitations of not being able to achieve good balance of instruments on playback: piano is way too loud so I lower the sound in the mixer, then other things are too loud/too soft, there's wild inconsistency, the need to impose markings on the score that are only there to get playback to sound decent, etc.

Note: my primary use of Finale these days is for composition purposes, and it's fantastic for that....I understand it is primarily a NOTATION program.

What I'd like to do is simple: export the audio files of a given piece to a third-party program, where I can adjust the levels. THAT'S IT. Not expecting mixing/mastering; just getting levels right so I can hear things properly. So I just installed Cakewalk Bandlab, but the problem is that the audio tracks are slightly off....there'll be a slight delay between tracks, so the piano, say, is a fraction of a second behind the bass. I went to their forum and they said:
..........................

When exporting multiple audio clips with the intent of loading them into another piece of software it is best to export as broadcast waves.

Broadcast wave files have their position on the timeline written into the files.

By default, CbB imports broadcast waves using their timestamp.

If the source cannot export broadcast waves, the next best option is export all the tracks starting at 0 on the timeline.
...........................

So: I don't understand timestamp, and it doesn't seem like BWF are possible on Finale. Any advice? (other than "forget it; this is a notation program!")
Finale v. 26, Windows 10, NP3, Garritan Instruments for Finale


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motet
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Post by motet » Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:02 pm

I agree that it ridiculous that the Garritan instruments are not normalized to a consistent dynamic. But others here have achieved good playback results in Finale, so perhaps they will speak up.

bj nick
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Post by bj nick » Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:15 pm

That's what I'm hoping for! fwiw: a friend who is a longtime pro user of Finale said he uses dynamic markings to overcome some of the limitations. But this leads to my having all sorts of markings that are silly: like the flute at FFFF so I can hear their line over the other instruments.
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oldmkvi
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Post by oldmkvi » Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:16 pm

If you have to jack-up the Flute, make the accompaniment softer.
Basic Instrumental Balance.
If you can't hear it in Finale, you won't be able to hear it Live.
Fixing it in the Mix isn't the way to go.
Write it so that it works acoustically.
Many Classical Composers have solved the Balance Problem, by writing it in.
Measure Expressions work fine for me.
And don't forget Panning!

bj nick
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Post by bj nick » Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:02 pm

Um......as I said, I AM using dynamic markings, all the time......I do understand "basic instrumental balance." However the dynamic markings get a little ridiculous when I have to constantly add things like FFFF for the flute in certain passages......it leads to very inconsistent results. (As I said.) If I could simply adjust balances with the mixer that would be consistent, this wouldn't be an issue. As far as "fixing it in the mix," all I'm trying to do, for one example, is just "bring up the flute a little." As I said. As far as panning, I've tried to use that, but I don't know much about it.....not sure how it will help with this issue, but I'm all ears!
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motet
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Post by motet » Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:43 pm

Maybe Note Performer, a third-party app that people seem to like. They probably have a free demo.

BuonTempi
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Post by BuonTempi » Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:10 pm

An alternative might be to export MIDI to the DAW, and then re-apply the Garritan samples from there. (And/or other samples.)

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zuill
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Post by zuill » Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:35 pm

I know systems vary, and experiences vary, and there are differences between windows and Mac, so there isn't one answer to what are many variables.

Regarding dynamics and Garritan sounds, and differences in time between tracks when exported individually, most of the problems are generated by Human Playback. Human playback does a lot, on the fly, and the outcome is different each pass of the file. So, I examine 2 options:

1. Turn off HP and then export each track individually. You won't have tempo variations, including rits and accels, or fermatas either. The tracks should then align in a DAW. You can then apply tempo variations there.

2. Apply HP to the file from the MIDI menu. This hardwires the MIDI data. It also strongly suggests you disable HP (the live form). Since HP does apply various MIDI changes to humanize the tracks, including tempo changes, exporting individual tracks will export them with exactly the same MIDI tempo data. Before exporting, if you want to fine tune any dynamics in individual tracks, you may. All that MIDI data is now hard wired, and exports with the track. You can even fine tune the MIDI Tempo data. That applies equally to all tracks, so the tracks will align properly when exported and then loaded into a DAW.

Note: when I say the MIDI data exports with the tracks, I mean the hardwired MIDI data is used to generate the exported Audio file. Those don't have MIDI data, but reflect the MIDI data in the Finale file.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

bj nick
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Post by bj nick » Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:10 pm

Thank you for this. I will try your suggestions and report back. I confess my knowledge of MIDI/digital audio is woefully lacking.
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blueshift
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Post by blueshift » Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:13 pm

I do the method the OP is referring to - and there are two methods. Audacity is free, and it has a normalize processor and quite a few others as well. You can also export tracks or groups of tracks from Finale separately, and create a multi-track file in Audacity if you need to process some tracks differently than others.

For non-destructive, work I use Cubase - it's not free but they have a couple starter packages that are remarkably well equipped. I saved a few bucks by getting mine through Sweetwater. Cubase is probably the best at multitrack audio (as opposed to VST / Midi arranging) which is why I use it, and unlike audacity, does not bounce it's output - somehow it does it all with live filters, even on multi-track aiffs and wavs. I use both, depending on the complexity of my task.
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Djard
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Post by Djard » Wed May 12, 2021 9:51 pm

The folks at Garritan are bent on excessive headroom, so the loudness of many instruments in its arsenal is abysmally poor. When faced with the issue you describe, here is the workaround I use.

I set the gain to 200 for the instrument Bank in "VST Banks & Effects." Additionally, I access ARIA Player's mixer and drag the fader for the instrument up to maximum; also, turn "Damping" level to zero (in "Effects"). I then mute all the instruments in Finale's mixer except the targeted one and export the track as a WAV file for processing in my DAW, where I have full control of the sound. Any degradation in the S/N ratio is imperceptible to my ear.

Be aware that setting the volume to maximum in Finale drastically reduces the dynamic range, after which dynamic marks are not honored (mf is then no different to ffff). Crescendos also fail. For me, mixing in my DAW is not an option.

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