Mysterious volume changes

Discuss playback problems, including VST, Garritan, MIDI, etc.

Moderators: Peter Thomsen, miker

Post Reply
montedoro44
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:21 pm
Finale Version: 27
Operating System: Windows

Post by montedoro44 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:35 am

This piece changes volume on playback -- I have tried everything I can think of to find the problem or just eliminate it.

There are 5 sections, m5-12, rpt, m15-22,rpt, m5-12. Call them A1, A2, B1, B2, A3. In playback, B2 is a bit different from all of the preceding, then A3 is different moreso. The difference is generally that it plays with less volume, but if I play through again, at least sometimes, the volume differences are reversed. It almost sounds like switching from MIDI to VST, but playing as VST also has similar variations. The difference between B1 and B2 sounds to me like switching between Midi and VST.

This was made using a midi keyboard input. I tried Clear Selected Items with Midi Data selected Also, copying into a new document, Reload Midi driver, and export to xml, uncheck Retain Key Velocities. Nothing works.

I have made many pieces like this and by the same methods -- only this one misbehaves. Can you figure out what it is doing?

Of possible relevance -- as I was using the midi keyboard to make pieces like this, somehow I lost MakeMusic SoftSynth 1, and what showed in Midi Setup was Default MIDI Output device. When I discovered this, I fixed it back to SS#1, and reset the several other pieces that I made using Default device to SS#1. No problems developed in any other piece.

If this piece fails to fail for you, then I am more lost.
Attachments
Mazurka 2 Kohler test.musx
(106.12 KiB) Downloaded 87 times


User avatar
zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:30 pm

Let's start with this. Is this any closer?

Zuill
Attachments
Mazurka 2 Kohler test Revised.musx
(106.12 KiB) Downloaded 101 times
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

montedoro44
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:21 pm
Finale Version: 27
Operating System: Windows

Post by montedoro44 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:50 pm

!!! Yes, zuill, this is exactly right. Please let me know what the problem was, and the cure.

edit: I can't help but notice that it loaded into Finale2.6 with the message that your doc was an earlier version. Does this have something to do with it?

User avatar
zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:12 pm

I have a newer version of Finale. You have v26.2 and I have v26.3.

I have seen this behavior before. It is a Human Playback problem. You'll notice the Human Playback Style I have is Custom. Click on Custom and look at the settings. I started with Standard, which is what you had chosen. However, I unchecked "Automatic Expression". Human Playback thinks that playing the DS softer is a good Expression call, without even letting us know, or giving an option. I am suspicious about the judgment of the programmers as to choosing that behavior.

I often start with removing or adjusting options in the Human Playback Style when these behaviors occur. You might take some time studying the differences between the different Styles (Classical, Baroque, Jazz, etc.) to gain insight on what the programmers consider in creating various Styles of interpretation. It's quite revealing.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

montedoro44
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:21 pm
Finale Version: 27
Operating System: Windows

Post by montedoro44 » Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:21 pm

Thanks for that! There's a lot of subtle stuff here. I read the description of "Automatic expression" -- maybe there's a bug in the programming, as it says "automatically add expressions (temporarily) to passages where there are none."

I just stumbled on what looks to be the unsuspected culprit. I have lots of similar-structure pieces like this, meaning A, A, B, B, D.S. to A, Fine. None of the these others have the misbehaved D.S. OTOH, this is the only one where I changed time sig in the 2nd ending. Now I just shortened the notes in the 2nd-ending to quarters in the flawed version & changed the time sig back to 3/4 -- problem gone. While it occurred to me before that the 7/4 might be involved, I dismissed it bc I detected a change in the sound already in the B-repeat. BTW, the 2nd-ending what-should-have-been fermatas were spelled out bc I present this in a Zoom session as mmo, and players can lose the count with fermatas.

Thanks, and I see I will put some effort into Human Playback styles now. "Automatic Expression" though is not well explained in the manual, what its reach is.

User avatar
Djard
Posts: 916
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:23 am
Finale Version: Finale 26
Operating System: Windows

Post by Djard » Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:06 am

I don't know what kind of musicians--if any--the software engineers at MakeMusic consult; but, judging by some of the nutty features, none of them are very knowledgeable about conventional music notation. Among the myriad of unresolved issues, version 26 actually added annoying things, like unlinking of paths to and from which a .musx file is opened. And when inserting a line, dashed or solid, it is automatically placed as too long or too short, requiring extra steps to correct, further slowing workflow. Children are taking over the world.

Still, Finale is a wonderful program.

User avatar
zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Thu Feb 25, 2021 4:38 am

Finale is finicky. As far as the lines issue, there is an option you might want to uncheck. It's called "Snap when Attaching to Beats" in the Smart Shape drop-down menu. I learned a long time ago to uncheck that. Maybe that's not the problem you are having, but worth trying.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

User avatar
Djard
Posts: 916
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:23 am
Finale Version: Finale 26
Operating System: Windows

Post by Djard » Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:09 am

Thanks. Disabling the snap to beat feature worked. I wonder why the feature is enabled by default, since it is not accurate and requires editing. In version 2012, I never had to disable the erratic setting in every new document.

User avatar
zuill
Posts: 4418
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:35 pm
Finale Version: Finale 2011-v26.3.1
Operating System: Windows

Post by zuill » Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:04 am

That feature was not available in 2012. It was added in a later version. When I install a new version of Finale, that's one of the first things I uncheck.

Zuill
Windows 10, Finale 2011-v26.3.1
"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

User avatar
Djard
Posts: 916
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:23 am
Finale Version: Finale 26
Operating System: Windows

Post by Djard » Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:14 am

Ah yes, I did not need to disable the inept snap-to feature in v2012 because it did not exist.

Post Reply